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DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1201: Oct 14th 2013 at 11:22:34 AM

It's very difficult to combine vertical takeoff/horizontal landing efficiently. The shuttle tried that, and basically no one was satisfied with the results (you will notice that none of the private companies are trying to model the space shuttle). The wings ruin the aerodynamics of the vertical flight, slowing the craft down, wasting fuel and exposing the winged craft to damage on the way up (as everyone knows).

That said, I dont know why no one has tried retractable wings with a VT/HL design.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#1202: Oct 14th 2013 at 11:33:42 AM

Presumably retractable wings would be complicated? The more moving bits you have the more likely your machine is to break. Also, there'd have to be space in the rocket/shuttle for the wings, and I'm guessing they're not exactly full of free space right now.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#1203: Oct 14th 2013 at 12:18:52 PM

[up] And heavier too.

But the Shuttle worked for the mission and the technology they had to work with; notice that the Buran used the same formnote .

Keep Rolling On
jaustin89 Since: Jul, 2012
#1204: Oct 14th 2013 at 12:59:48 PM

Just ran the math, an active decent profile from LEO adds 1.5kg of fuel for each kg of dry mass.

This may not sound like much but it adds up quick when you take into account the average mass of a space craft mass; assuming this would be planned to carry people the lowest I'd guess for a final design would be around that of the mercury capsule at 1,360kg, on the high end it could be comparable to the shuttle at 68,585kg+payload. That would mean between 2040 and 102877.5 extra kilos of fuel for a ship with no cargo.

If we assume the same maximum payload as the shuttle(25,060kg+68,585kg for the ship itself) it would need 187290kg extra. That's almost 20% of the mass of the ISS in fuel over what would be needed for a passive decent.

edited 14th Oct '13 1:00:27 PM by jaustin89

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#1205: Oct 14th 2013 at 1:17:51 PM

[up]

I'm not sure it's intended to descend actively all the way from LEO. The first stage is intended to work as the Grasshopper does, the second is supposed to align with the launch site and then re-enter the atmosphere, presumably with a controlled descent to the launch site - this is around 24 hours post-launch.

Personally, I'm not sure how SpaceX do it, but they reckon that their re-usability means a 30% reduction in payload. Their design uses a deceleration burn, then a second burn towards the end of the flight to control the landing. They've already done this successfully once over water, with the Falcon 9 rocket. They plan to try again with the next shot in February 2014.

TOW has more details.

edited 14th Oct '13 1:18:16 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#1206: Oct 14th 2013 at 1:34:48 PM

Anyone else heard of a satellite-launching rocket powered by HTP?

Keep Rolling On
jaustin89 Since: Jul, 2012
#1207: Oct 14th 2013 at 1:42:07 PM

[up][up] I suppose the most realistic thing to do here is to assume that they know what their doing better than I do, since they're aerospace engineers and I'm not (yet).

[up] Ive heard of using H2O2 as a fuel but I don't remember hearing anything specifying it's use (aside from early stuff like the V2).

edited 14th Oct '13 1:42:33 PM by jaustin89

DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#1208: Oct 17th 2013 at 12:31:14 PM

NASA reopening doors, getting back online after shutdown ends

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#1209: Oct 23rd 2013 at 11:13:35 PM

Orbital Sciences Pod Cynus Loaded with trash and shoved back into atmo.

NASA's super fast laser communication system.

Who watches the watchmen?
demarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1210: Oct 24th 2013 at 7:31:06 AM

That's the future of communications, right there. I once wrote a novelette in which an AI had a brain that consisted of a massive cloud of laser relays, firing at each other.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#1211: Oct 24th 2013 at 8:49:37 AM

Japan tests space cannon This is why I love Japan!

edited 24th Oct '13 9:01:14 AM by tricksterson

Trump delenda est
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#1212: Oct 24th 2013 at 9:25:45 AM

[up]

It's been done, by (who else) the Russians. tongue

edited 24th Oct '13 9:26:07 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#1214: Oct 24th 2013 at 2:03:56 PM

Far out man!

tongue

edited 24th Oct '13 2:04:05 PM by Joesolo

I'm baaaaaaack
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1215: Oct 25th 2013 at 5:24:54 AM

I wonder if that discovery changes our cosmological models in any way. 13.8 billion years is pushing into the so-called "inflationary" period of the universe, before any coherent matter larger than a particle was supposed to exist.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#1216: Oct 25th 2013 at 2:55:30 PM

[up] 13.8 billion light years away doesn't mean we're seeing it as it was 13.8 billion years ago. It was a lot closer when that light was emitted but the distance is it's 'present' distance from us.

Elfive (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1217: Oct 25th 2013 at 3:10:20 PM

Yeah, the outer edge of the observable universe is actually about 40 or so billion lightyears away, because of expansion.

optimusjamie Since: Jun, 2010
#1218: Oct 25th 2013 at 3:23:53 PM

Got some questions for a book I'm writing:

  • Is six months a realistic length for a one-way Earth-Jupiter flight? Clarification: Ship about the size of London, using a big-arse fusion rocket.
  • How tall would a space elevator on Europa have to be?
  • What useful gases could be extracted from Jupiter's clouds?
  • If there were fish on Europa, could we eat them?
  • Where can I find a map of Europa?

edited 25th Oct '13 3:51:37 PM by optimusjamie

Direct all enquiries to Jamie B Good
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1219: Oct 25th 2013 at 3:25:54 PM

Last question: Fantastically unlikely. Most likely our and their biochemistries would be full incompatible.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#1220: Oct 25th 2013 at 3:38:15 PM

@earth-to-jupiter - sounds reasonable to me, mars is supposed to be about a month and a half.

edited 25th Oct '13 3:38:31 PM by joesolo

I'm baaaaaaack
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#1221: Oct 25th 2013 at 3:44:59 PM

[up]Where do you get that from? I always heard it was about 6 months minimum. Jupiter is probably more than a year away.

demarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1222: Oct 25th 2013 at 3:47:15 PM

Travel times depend on what type of engine your using, and how big the payment.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
KylerThatch literary masochist Since: Jan, 2001
literary masochist
#1223: Oct 25th 2013 at 3:49:32 PM

Payment or payload?

This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...
Elfive (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1224: Oct 25th 2013 at 3:50:08 PM

A space elevator on Europa would need to be approximately 18,130 km in height.

tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#1225: Oct 25th 2013 at 3:54:31 PM

here is the wiki article on Jupiter's atmosphere.

Trump delenda est

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