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MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#3551: Dec 26th 2016 at 12:03:15 AM

Except Earth was not like that for most of its history; plate tectonics, remember? It used to be one supercontinent surrounded by a single world ocean, and that's after the primeval geological hell that was the Hadean Eon finally ended and its super-volcanism dialed down to much lower levels that allowed for life to exist in any recognizable form.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#3552: Dec 26th 2016 at 1:10:02 AM

Technically speaking, there were continents and moving oceans even before Rodinia. But so little has remained from the Hadean, that trying to tell its plate tectonic environment is like putting together a jigsaw puzzle with half of the pieces missing.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#3553: Dec 26th 2016 at 1:31:45 AM

Which is why I specifically qualified my statement by saying that it's after said period (implicit in said statement is that it's also long before the modern continents reached an arrangement that even remotely resembles the current one).

So, about the possibility of Mars having been significantly bigger in ancient times before a hypothetical impact with another celestial body...

edited 26th Dec '16 1:32:04 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#3554: Dec 26th 2016 at 1:52:02 AM

Hmmm. I'm wondering how much, if anything, this might have to do with the Tharsis Bulge. It's generally agreed that it actually caused the crust to break and form the Valles Marineris so it's possible it might have had other side effects.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#3555: Dec 26th 2016 at 2:09:10 AM

... I'm honestly not sure what you are referring to by "this" at the beginning of your post.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#3556: Dec 26th 2016 at 12:02:37 PM

[up] The current topic of discussion. The difference in geography (well technically areography) between Mars's northern and southern hemispheres.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#3557: Dec 26th 2016 at 1:43:38 PM

Then sorry to burst your bubble, but the basin is actually a lot older than Tharsis, which is incidentally mentioned in the Wikipedia article for the former.

Topographical data from Mars Global Surveyor are consistent with the models and also suggest that the elliptical crater has axes of length 10,600 km (6,600 mi) and 8,500 km (5,300 mi), centered on 67°N 208°E, though this has been partially obscured by later volcanic eruptions that created the Tharsis bulge along its rim.

edited 26th Dec '16 1:43:54 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#3558: Dec 26th 2016 at 1:59:24 PM

I feel that if Mars hit another celestial body in its distant past, it would be bigger than it is now or we'd see remains of the impact in the rest of the solar system. And afaik, we don't see that.

Like, it's likely that billions of years ago, Earth collided into another planet, and that's why our planet is the size that it is and why we have our moon.

edited 26th Dec '16 2:08:06 PM by BaconManiac5000

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#3559: Dec 28th 2016 at 5:07:22 AM

Reaching back about a week, but as I was out of touch for the holidays...

Occasionally I think about the plausibility of building a ring habitat around Venus, but then I come here and think "Well, that would be a constant struggle to upkeep" because sulfuric acid kind of sounds constantly corrosive.
Depends on what you mean by a "ring habitat". If you mean something like a Stanford torus or a Dyson ring around Venus, then the content of Venus' atmosphere doesn't matter because the thing is in orbit anyway. However, aerostat colonies in the Venusian atmosphere are a serious proposal (or at least, as serious as such proposals get without actually being backed by funding and a set schedule). While sulfuric acid is kind of a downer, there's plenty of structural materials that don't mind it in the least, or you can coat it in stuff (like teflon — no, really!) that will resist the effects of the acid without compromising the material underneath.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#3561: Dec 28th 2016 at 9:53:32 AM

Which is still smaller than the North Polar Basin.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#3562: Dec 29th 2016 at 3:26:42 AM

For the bulk of Earth's history, the geography has been heavily southern-based.

When landmasses get biased towards the northern hemisphere, it's usually a case of continental break-up leading to a global, predominantly southern super-continent in a few hundred million years. Guess what's been happening since the Triassic?

edited 29th Dec '16 3:28:00 AM by Euodiachloris

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#3563: Dec 29th 2016 at 4:17:13 AM

Technically, in this time they are assembling north. Amasia and the two future Pangea scenarios are north-centered.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3565: Jan 8th 2017 at 10:09:59 AM

I personally think that putting a hab at one of the L points would be better than the moon.

edited 8th Jan '17 10:10:32 AM by DeMarquis

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
optimusjamie Since: Jun, 2010
#3566: Jan 8th 2017 at 10:29:16 AM

[up] Aye, that's what I'd think too, based on the delta-v requirements. Then again, using lunar ice for water, oxygen and hydrogen could be advantageous for exploring beyond Earth's SOI- it depends on what you want the base for and what technology you're using.

Direct all enquiries to Jamie B Good
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#3567: Jan 8th 2017 at 9:27:37 PM

[up][up]Depends on what you want to do with it. If you want to do moon science, then obviously a lunar hab is going to be better. If you just want to have a bunch of people living in space, then something like an Island 3 colony at a Lagrange point is probably a better bet, though, yes.

Of course, the Island 3 design sort of presupposes an existing lunar hab, since much of the raw material going into its construction is meant to be taken from the moon.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3568: Jan 9th 2017 at 9:50:10 AM

Two words: Trojan asteroids.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#3569: Jan 9th 2017 at 11:06:29 AM

Trojan asteroids are also a hell of a lot farther away than the moon or the lagrange points, though, which presents its own problems.

Although it just occurred to me that we might be talking about different things. With my initial post, I was referring to the Earth-Moon Lagrange points, not the Sun-Earth Lagrange points (which is where trojan asteroids hang out).

The benefit of building a space hab from scratch as opposed to building on one the moon or something is that space habs can be designed to mimic terrestrial conditions pretty damn closely through the use of Centrifugal Gravity, while building on the moon (or Mars, or in an asteroid, or whatever) means you're stuck with local gravity, which is (with few exceptions) really bad for human physiology long-term.

But if you're building something in space, the particular patch of space you build it in doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of difference, barring local weirdness like planetary radiation belts and the like. So there's no real advantage to building your space hab in the Sun-Earth Lagrange points compared to the Earth-Moon Lagrange points, and the disadvantage is the fact that it's way the hell farther away, which causes all sorts of logistical problems for both building the things and living in them.

edited 9th Jan '17 11:12:43 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#3570: Jan 9th 2017 at 11:59:52 AM

Wouldn't a space hub just be a more modern version fo the ISS though?

Also the gravity situation could be an advantage, if we can study the impact that moon gravity has on people than it will help us when we come to building a mars base and need to ensure that the mars gravity doesn't screw our people over.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#3571: Jan 9th 2017 at 1:35:44 PM

Well, like I said, depends on what you want to do with it. A lunar base for the purposes of developing institutional knowledge that can be applied to a Mars base is an entirely legit thing, and obviously would need to be on the moon. But if you just want to have people living in space, not out of any attempts to do science or anything but just to have a place off of Earth for people to live, then a space hab is going to be a better bet.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Imca (Veteran)
#3572: Jan 9th 2017 at 2:55:44 PM

I would think a Lunar base would be great for launching rockets, what with the water you can electrolize into fuel.

Sure it does actually have gravity, but only about 1/6th that of earth, and it has a great ability to refuel.

edited 9th Jan '17 2:56:25 PM by Imca

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#3574: Jan 31st 2017 at 12:14:05 PM

Astronaut twin study hints at stress of space travel

Preliminary results are in from NASA's unprecedented twin study — a detailed probe of the genetic differences between astronaut Scott Kelly, who spent nearly a consecutive year in space, and his identical twin Mark. Measurements taken before, during and after Scott Kelly's mission reveal changes in gene expression, DNA methylation and other biological markers that are likely to be attributable to his time in orbit.

From the lengths of the twins' chromosomes to the microbiomes in their guts, "almost everyone is reporting that we see differences," says Christopher Mason, a geneticist at Weill Cornell Medicine in New York City. He and other project scientists reported the early results on 26 January in Galveston, Texas, at a meeting of scientists working in NASA's Human Research Program. "The data are so fresh that some of them are still coming off the sequencing machines," Mason says.

The challenge now is to untangle how many of the observed changes are specific to the physical demands of spaceflight - and how many might be simply due to natural variations. And because the Kelly twins are just two people, the results may not be generalizable to others.

This is fascinating.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#3575: Feb 1st 2017 at 3:00:27 PM

I suppose NASA should put some money into programs specifically recruiting twins into their organization.


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