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KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#3526: Dec 22nd 2016 at 1:48:31 AM

... Man, scifi writers who do anything involving human habitations with Jupiter's vicinity (whether on its moons or near the planet itself) seriously need to be given crash courses on this subject.

Actually its generally agreed that, at least for Europa if you burrowed in and hung your habitat off the underside of the ice it would have enough mass to shield you from the radiation. Ditto Ganymede and Callisto. Just dig in and all that rock and ice blocks the radiation.

Io.... Io is a different story. Problem one is that given it's the most volcanically active body in the Solar System, digging in to get enough shielding from the radiation is a lot harder. Problem two is all that volcanic on a body that small means there is a ring of particles in Io's orbit that become charged by interaction with Jupiter's magnetic field. And that creates flux tube between Jupiter and Io that can discharge in terrifingly powerful lightning strikes between the two.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#3527: Dec 22nd 2016 at 2:15:34 AM

[up]Stunningly beautiful, though. Horribly deadly, but... that's space for you. That which takes your breath away is probably gonna freeze or fry you. tongue

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#3528: Dec 22nd 2016 at 3:11:12 AM

... Lightning strikes from Jupiter to Io? Wow.

On a different note, why is it that NASA wants to build a colony on Mars when they haven't even tried that with the much closer Luna?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#3529: Dec 22nd 2016 at 8:56:57 AM

I wouldn't say it's NASA specifically, that seems more a goal of space exploration in general; Mars, as our closest planetary neighbor, as long held the fascination in both the space exploration sector and the pop cultural consciousness. Especially since we used to believe it had actual life on it!

In any case, there are probably quite a few in NASA who'd prefer to try something on the Moon before going all the way to Mars, but I think the push, however small, from the public and such is to focus on Mars. NASA's gotta go where the money points, I am pretty sure.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#3530: Dec 22nd 2016 at 11:22:05 AM

Venus is actually much closer to Earth than Mars is (38 to 261 km vs 55 to 401 km).

That being said, Venus is also the celestial body in the solar system not named the sun that would kill you the most quickly if you were standing on its surface.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
MCE Since: Jan, 2001
#3531: Dec 22nd 2016 at 1:01:57 PM

How would you work out how long it would take (roughly) for a ship to re-enter a planet atmosphere and hit the ground?

SabresEdge Show an affirming flame from a defense-in-depth Since: Oct, 2010
Show an affirming flame
#3532: Dec 22nd 2016 at 1:06:24 PM

The variables would be orbital speed, descent angle, atmospheric composition...or you could rule-of-thumb it and use things like the space shuttle, ISS, and lunar mission re-entries as a gauge.

Charlie Stross's cheerful, optimistic predictions for 2017, part one of three.
CDRW Since: May, 2016
#3533: Dec 22nd 2016 at 1:09:17 PM

You could get the Real Solar System mod and act it out in Kerbal Space Program. tongue

edited 22nd Dec '16 1:09:36 PM by CDRW

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#3534: Dec 22nd 2016 at 2:01:30 PM

Kind of a weird question, but what would happen if Europa and the Moon switched places?

Assuming they kept the others momentum, so they didn't crash into their new planets.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#3535: Dec 22nd 2016 at 3:23:54 PM

Europa is lighter than the moon, so it would fly into a higher orbit. The orbit will probably become more elliptical.

Also, reduced tide strength.

edited 22nd Dec '16 3:25:14 PM by war877

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#3536: Dec 22nd 2016 at 6:11:03 PM

Why is it that the galactic coordinate system puts the north pole outside the galaxy (specifically, at a point whose "shadow" on the galactic plane is at the center of the galactic core), rather than pick one of the galactic quadrants (probably the one in which the Solar System is in) and designate it as the "northern quadrant", then name the other quadrants accordingly? I mean, yeah, I get that you want to reflect the fact that the Galaxy is 3-dimensional, but if you set the north and south like that, how are you going to set "east" and "west"? And how do you name the third axis, anyway?

[up] And as we all know, reduced tide strength beyond the normal range of fluctation for the Moon is very bad for Earth's biosphere, because it directly affects geological stability.

edited 22nd Dec '16 6:14:12 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#3537: Dec 22nd 2016 at 7:48:55 PM

For the moon base discussion.

NASA has this year pitched the idea of a Moon Base complete with international partners.

Returning to the Moon has been the fevered dream of many scientists and astronauts. Ever since the Apollo Program culminated with the first astronauts setting foot on the Moon on July 20th, 1969, we have been looking for ways to go back to the Moon… and to stay there. In that time, multiple proposals have been drafted and considered. But in every case, these plans failed, despite the brave words and bold pledges made.

However, in a workshop that took place in August of 2014, representatives from NASA met with Harvard geneticist George Church, Peter Diamandis from the X Prize Foundation and other parties invested in space exploration to discuss low-cost options for returning to the Moon. The papers, which were recently made available in a special issue of New Space, describe how a settlement could be built on the Moon by 2022, and for the comparatively low cost of $10 billion.

Put simply, there are many benefits to establishing a base on the Moon. In addition to providing refueling stations that would shave billions off of future space missions – especially to Mars, which are planned for the 2030s – they would provide unique opportunities for scientific research and the testing of new technologies.

More recently the ESA has suggested something similar

Imagine an international research station on the moon, where astronauts and cosmonauts and taikonauts and any other-nauts from around the world conduct science experiments, gather resources, build infrastructure, study our home planet from afar, and erect a new radio telescope to probe the mysteries of the ancient cosmos. This is the vision of Jan Woerner, the German civil engineer who serves as the Director General of the European Space Agency. He calls it "Moon Village."

Who watches the watchmen?
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#3538: Dec 22nd 2016 at 7:56:27 PM

So what if the same happened with Callisto or Ganymede?

edited 22nd Dec '16 7:56:42 PM by BaconManiac5000

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#3539: Dec 23rd 2016 at 12:38:53 AM

but if you set the north and south like that, how are you going to set "east" and "west"? And how do you name the third axis, anyway?

You don't set east and west. Your axis are spinward and anti-spinward while the third axis coreward vs rimward. And the reason for this entire thing is technically the galaxy is an a disk projected into three dimensions. Which means you need a cylindrical co-ordinate system and the three axis are height (galactic north vs south), radial distance (core vs rim) and angle (spin vs anti-spin) and the first two fall out naturally from the galaxies shape. And while a polar co-ordinate system might more easily accommodate the galactic halo it only requires the definition of a single, arbitrary meridian rather than polar co-ordinates two.

war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#3540: Dec 23rd 2016 at 10:22:25 AM

[up][up]Well, for ganymede, the opposite would largely happen. It is heavier, so it would fall into a lower orbit, the orbit will probably become more elliptical and tidal strength will rise.

edited 23rd Dec '16 10:22:37 AM by war877

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#3541: Dec 24th 2016 at 1:46:58 AM

Speaking of tidal strength,Europa's inner ocean must be quite a mess from Jupiter's gravity.Does it affect it's shape?

I can imagine that the constant movement would probably help with developing life though.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#3542: Dec 24th 2016 at 3:16:32 AM

[up]Io still beats all its remaining siblings, though. Well, unless you count the ones that got swallowed or only made it as rings. tongue

war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#3543: Dec 24th 2016 at 10:06:42 AM

I heard that gravitational forces from jupiter ripped apart what would have been the fifth planet in our solar system.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#3544: Dec 24th 2016 at 11:33:21 AM

It also protects us from the asteroid belt.Somewhat.

KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#3545: Dec 24th 2016 at 2:05:20 PM

[up][up] Not quite. It's more accurate to say that gravitational effects from Jupiter prevented a planet from forming in the vicinity of what is now the asteroid belt. Jupiter's gravity kept nudging the orbits of the objects in the proto-planetary disk enough so that Ceres or some other similar body was never able to reach that critical threshold in size where it could just start pulling everything in.

BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#3546: Dec 24th 2016 at 6:15:51 PM

It's also why Mars is so tiny.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#3547: Dec 25th 2016 at 12:58:14 AM

... Really? I was wondering about that. Specifically, I've read about this theory that ancient Mars may have suffered a gigantic impact event with another celestial body, explaining its screwed-up axis of rotation, unusually weak magnetic field, odd dichotomy of its geography, and other traits that are peculiar to it; that got me into wondering if such an impact may have actually blown off a sizeable chunk of the red planet, leaving us with the half-Earth's-size world that we see today.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#3548: Dec 25th 2016 at 1:19:14 AM

[up]

What? Granted Mars is a little bit on the slow size and there's no obvious reason for it like Earth (tidal friction from the Moon has drastically slowed the Earth's rotation over the last several billion years) but it's Axial tilt is only a little more than Earth's. The ones with the really screwed up axial tilts are Uranus (infamously tilted more than 90 degrees) and Venus with it's retrograde rotation (effectively of an axial tilt of approx 180 degrees)

And it's lack of magnetic field is probably because its core is cooled enough that it no long gets a dynamo effect that shields Earth.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#3549: Dec 25th 2016 at 2:19:48 AM

... Huh. I could've sworn that a few months ago I've read on Wikipedia that Mars' magnetic poles and axis of rotation were not even remotely closely aligned, to the point that one of its magnetic poles more or less faces the Sun directly. Must've confused Mars with Uranus when I made that post.

Still, the fact remains that almost an entire half of Mars is just one huge basin, contrasting the much more diverse other half.

edited 25th Dec '16 2:23:46 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
BaconManiac5000 Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#3550: Dec 25th 2016 at 1:51:47 PM

That's not too much different than Earth, which has an entire third covered in one ocean.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else

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