The Grand Unified Appearance Trope Clean-up:

Sorry for triple posting but since disambiguation is second most popular item crowner maybe we can do that now and start wick cleaning? We could use Malady's draft here. Although Signature Headgear should replace Iconic Item's on the list once it launches.

My question hasn't been answered: can we make a "symbolic hair dec" trope?

Or can Important Hair Accessory's description be broadened?

I am pretty we answered this already but I think its better to broaden the latter a little.

Edited by MacronNotes on Feb 4th 2020 at 7:39:19 AM

Hmmm...the two examples that I was going to suggest for the symbolic decs wouldn't fit that definition, though, or at least I don't believe they would. Has anyone proposed said broadening yet?

Edited by Willbyr on Feb 5th 2020 at 11:47:41 AM

theres no consensus on that yet but what it the context of ypur examples by the way?

Formatted as examples, with pics included for reference:

• Honkai Impact 3rd:
  • Rita Rossweisse, in her Argent Knight: Artemis battlesuit, deals ice damage in combat. This is symbolized both by the cold color scheme of the suit and by a crown-like hair ornament which appears to be made of ice. Pic◊
  • Along with her long "fox ears", Yae Sakura has two battlesuits that use fox masks to further visually symbolize her connection to the Herrscher of Corruption, which manifests as a demonic kitsune. As Gyakushin Miko she wears a mask around her waist, but Darkbolt Jonin (a sort-of clone) wears the mask on the side of her head. Pic

4tell and/or ~Ano Baka Desu can provide more context as needed and may be able to suggest other examples from the game.

Edited by Willbyr on Feb 6th 2020 at 9:24:47 AM

• Japanese mascots for Windows 8, Ai & Yuu Madobe◊, has hair ribbons that are tied to form 8s. For Windows 7, Madobe Nanami◊ has a hairpin with 4 colors of Windows' logo.

I believe Mercury's Wings is a subtrope to this concept, giving a "divine/angelic" symbol.

They fit into Meaningful Appearance for now. I suppose we could get back to redefining Important Hair Accessory sometime after. Or someone can make a Symbolic Hair Decs TLP if they think it deserves its own page.

Although all these hat/headgear tropes are bleeding into each other.

Edited by MacronNotes on Feb 9th 2020 at 3:06:04 PM

Bandage Babe does not look very good. Possibly another loosely-defined "thing + hawt" trope.

I will add it to the sandbox.

So I might launch Signature Headgear this weekend. I asked before but got no answer but is it ok if just went ahead and turned Hair Decorations into a disambig and then start the wick clean up?

I know we haven't finished dewicking Hair Decorations but it might be good to start discussing Nice Hat, since this as come up repeatedly in the discussion for Signature Headgear and might be a barrier to launching.

What is Nice Hat actually about? The description to me reads an awful lot like "people wear hats", but people have variously claimed in the draft that it's about characters being distinguished by unique hats (overlaps with Signature Headgear, which is taking hat examples) or a Costume Porn trope about hats.

Alternately, I could see it being a trope about elaborate fancy pimped-out hats, hats as a mark of social class, or a setting where everyone wears hats, all tropeworthy concepts not explicitly discussed but implied by the related tropes on Nice Hat.

Edited by naturalironist on Feb 23rd 2020 at 9:28:11 AM

I'd be down with splitting Nice Hat and making the current a redirect.

We havent actually started working on Hair Decorations. I tried to get more consensus on turning it to a disambig or something else but didnt get any responses.

Anyways, I feel like Nice Hat was supposed to Signature Head Gear but the meaning got lost in time.

I think the only way can salvage this as a trope is to limit to gaudy over the top elaborate hats that signal a characters wealth, eccentricity or other things I am missing.

Edited by MacronNotes on Feb 23rd 2020 at 9:23:38 AM

Nice Hat feels like the hat-variant of Cool Crown. A baseball cap wouldn't count, because it's too plain, unless it's bedazzled or something.

A top hat is fancy and would count, maybe? Does it have its own trope?

Both disambiguate and create a new trope options have consensus level votes in the crowner; I'd say it can be called. I thought we were just waiting for Signature Headgear to launch.

Oh, I will disambig it then. I'd say we can work on Hair Decorations regardless. 99% of the wicks are almost guaranteed to be bad anyways

Signature Headgear is pretty much ready to go. I just need to tweak the description and add the examples. I hope to launch it sometime this week if there arent any objections.

In the interim, I think we can continue to discuss what to do with Nice Hat like we are now while we we take on Hair Decorations wicks

Nice Hat should be treated similarly to Hair Decorations in my opinion: be part of Signature Headgear.

Cool Crown and Cool Helmet are NH's subtropes.

I came here because I saw the Signature Headgear draft but I didn't want to distract from that too much.

In my experience, Nice Hat is the epitome of an appearance trope having no actual narrative meaning.

I don't have a wick check to objectively back me up, but I swear I've seen that trope linked on pretty much every character ever that wears any sort of hat. Hats seem to be one of those things that are just memetic, kind of like bacon. Bacon doesn't have to have any context, bringing it up just makes people obsess about bacon.

A good example of the problem to me, is Atop the Fourth Wall: "His trilby. At Comi Con, when asked if he was wearing "the" hat, his response was "Yes, and you may touch it for a dollar, good sir!" In his Christmas Episode, it becomes extra nice. How? He wears a Santa hat on top of the trilby!"

Okay? The intro song to the show calls attention to the hat, but it's just a hat. It's an iconic part of his outfit, but there's nothing notable about the hat itself.

I would like the say that the name of the trope leads to misuse, because Nice Hat is extremely vague, but re-reading the description, the description isn't any better.

"To show that you mean business, it's important to have style. Enter: the nice hat. It may actually have utility — even conveying special powers — but more often than not it just looks cool, or even just sexy."

There's no meaning there at all. It's just: a hat. Maybe it has powers. Maybe someone just finds it fashionable. As long as some fan somewhere takes note of it, it's a "nice hat."

Then the next paragraph just talks about how specific kinds of hats sometimes evoke certain other things that people like, but even that's pretty vague. A fedora might be cool because it reminds someone somewhere of a noir story they liked, not because the hat itself has any meaning.

That said, Signature Headgear probably is a good way to replace Nice Hat as well with as little shake-up as possible. At least "this hat makes the character stand out" is at least some reason to bring it up outside "I like hats."

Edited by Jokubas on Feb 23rd 2020 at 11:19:17 AM

I agree, Nice Hat is meaningless as-is.

Alright, I disambiguated Hair Decorations so lwt thw wick cleaning commence. I will be stripping it of its indexes and cleaning up a few wicks as of right now. I will do more later on today

Too tired to do some now, but I can tackle some tomorrow.

If the hat is discussed In-Universe, or something, we may also have a trope there...

@Jokubas so basically the trope as is, amounts to People Sit On Chairs, right?

Here's a radical idea, that maybe shouldve been closer to page 1 than page 99 of this thread. But do we think theres actually space for these narratively mostly meaningless, but nonetheless consistent 'visual tropes.'

Like how, instead of cutting Moment Of Awesome etc, it moves to Sugar Wiki. And we also have Darth Wiki.... should we just have Visual Wiki, and move all this stuff over there?

Edited by acrobox on Feb 24th 2020 at 11:36:09 AM

Er...that doesn't fix the problem. Those wikis aren't just used for shoving useless information into the corner so we don't need to vacuum it. They're for fun stuff that just doesn't fit elsewhere, such as positive or negative audience reactions.

In other words, a "Visual Wiki" would be completely pointless, and would just be a way of ignoring the underlying issue instead of fixing anything.