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The Grand Unified Appearance Trope Clean-up:

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On TV Tropes, it's very common for editors to misuse appearance tropes, as well as tropes whose names make them sound like they could be appearance tropes.

Meaningful Appearance tropes are often misused in ways that overlook the "Meaningful" aspect, resulting in Zero Context Examples and misuse in the form of examples that have no meaning even if the tropes themselves are not People Sit on Chairs.

The Appearance Tropes Cleanup sandbox covers tropes with potential issues. Tropes that simply require cleanup will go through this thread, while tropes that require more significant action will have to go through the Trope Repair Shop.

April 2, 2023 update: This thread is no longer for making changes to tropes, and was brought back from the Projects Morgue solely for cleanup. Making changes to tropes is still a job for the Trope Repair Shop.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 2nd 2023 at 9:18:26 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1426: Jul 21st 2016 at 8:15:12 PM

Broadly speaking, yes. However, the basic test we're applying here is whether at least half the examples are ZCEs or misuse. That will cull the herd a bit and let us focus on some of the stronger edge cases.

edited 21st Jul '16 8:15:27 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#1427: Jul 21st 2016 at 8:36:43 PM

But again that is more the problem with a too clear cut title, it is self-explanatory and most of the time the description is redundant.

edited 21st Jul '16 8:44:48 PM by Memers

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#1428: Jul 22nd 2016 at 5:54:11 AM

I've found that pretty much every time the trope title contains all the context for the trope, that means the trope isn't actually a trope.

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shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#1429: Jul 22nd 2016 at 1:29:30 PM

Larkman is correct on that one. If all there is is the trope name, there's probably not a trope.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#1430: Jul 22nd 2016 at 2:03:10 PM

Wouldn't Fiery Redhead's context be complementary and redundant to Hot-Blooded, the same way Tomboyish Sidetails is complementary and redundant to Tomboy.

The Fiery Redhead stereotype isn't simply Hot-Blooded. It's "Hot-Blooded meets Hair-Trigger Temper because red hair". So, really it's saying that if Character X has red hair, there's a good chance they'll be both of those two tropes (or at the very least Hair-Trigger Temper).

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#1431: Jul 22nd 2016 at 2:14:14 PM

... I think you're misusing Hot-Blooded here, because said trope requires a "larger-than-life" aspect that isn't always present in the Fiery Redhead archetype. That said, I don't remember seeing a Fiery Redhead that isn't at least quite easily angered/excited compared to everyone else, so the coincidence of red hair color and emotional volatility/"heat" is indeed an essential trait of the archetype.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#1432: Jul 22nd 2016 at 4:49:15 PM

i dont know...i feel like everyone is cherry picking, because we (self included) like Fiery Redhead more than Tomboyish Sidetails (just as an example) when they're really the same type of trope. Which comes down to visual design indicating something about personality. And what it indicates is pretty much fully covered by the trope title. Fiery Redheads have red hair and 'fiery' personalities for however you want to define fiery. Which the trope description itself potholes to Hot-Blooded in the very first sentence. Tomboyish Sidetails are tomboys for however you want to define it, and have sidetails.

Granted fiery redhead is more intuitive since it mentally overlaps with Personality Powers or Astonishingly Appropriate Appearance generally (red hair=Red Oni=fiery personality), where you can't guess sidetails=tomboy until you see the pattern. But the pattern, even if more limited, is still there.

The only argument I can get behind so far besides law of the mods is the ZCE check to see if its mostly misuse. And if Fiery Redhead fails the wick test it should, in fairness, be cut too.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#1433: Jul 22nd 2016 at 5:52:33 PM

Tomboyish Sidetails is one of the few ways an anime artist can show 'this is a girl' in the face for many tomboys due to Only Six Faces.

  • They do not have long hair or their hair is in a boyish ponytail
  • they do not wear makeup and most manga styles do not show makeup on anyone.
  • they don't have hair decs like most short haired anime girls as that is too girly
They basically only have this or have to show breasts in every panel.

edited 23rd Jul '16 8:28:22 AM by Memers

BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#1434: Jul 22nd 2016 at 8:20:14 PM

[up]This is basically a pretty perfect summation of Tomboyish Sidetails.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#1435: Jul 24th 2016 at 9:46:49 AM

I'm not objecting to the fact that visual shorthand exists. Just that maybe we should have visual short hands for specific tropes listed as part of their trope pages, either on the main or maybe on an Analysis page or even a specific visual short hand page since floating out on their own, people just use them as hashtags rather than tropes.

While visual shorthands are certainly used, they're not really tropes in and of themselves. They're more of standard lampshades for existing tropes. Most of them just don't have the legs to stand on on their own.

edited 24th Jul '16 9:59:01 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#1436: Jul 24th 2016 at 11:07:49 AM

They are tropes IMO, especially in media where they have complete creative control over a character, IE Anime, Video Games, Comics etc. and these LOVE to make them a pattern cause creativity is rare. People noticed these way before TV Tropes ever existed, especially on the Japanese side. Merging them onto other pages would make a disastrous mess of stuff.

Visual Character Tropes are slightly different from story tropes, I prefer sorting them like the previously linked Dissidia's character page. It is a wide category from stuff there isnt any real difference from Heroic Build and Tomboyish Sidetails and chopping them all would be a waste.


EDIT: Hell even things like the color of a character's tie has meaning in works some works.

Such as this season's Love Live Sunshine first year second year third year. making it easy to tell there will be 3 of each. Love Live did it as well.

Bodacious Space Pirates have different color hoodies based on year, Hidamari Sketch's uniforms have different ties on if they are an art student or general ed student. The Legend Of Heroes Trails Of Cold Steel flat out entirely different colors of uniform, Class VII wears red, nobles wear white and commoners wear green.

I was thinking about YKTT Wing this but because of this thread I have been extremely hesitant.

edited 24th Jul '16 12:25:18 PM by Memers

TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#1437: Jul 24th 2016 at 2:11:30 PM

[up] I think all that would fall under the general Colour-Coded for Your Convenience. Whenever or not it would warrant its own subtrope, I don't have the judgement for that.

Only sometimes posts
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#1439: Jul 24th 2016 at 8:07:04 PM

I actually agree with shima on this one. Tomboyish Sidetails and the like that fail our ZCE test can be redirected to whatever the base character trope is.

As in we just add a line in the Tomboy trope that basically says 'A girl with this personality type will often wear her hair in sidetails, particularly in anime and manga'

then when you have tomboy on a work or character page you can say

  • Tomboy: This character plays sports, doesnt like dresses and even wears her hair in sidetails as a dead visual giveaway to the audience.

instead of

  • Tomboy: This character plays sports, doesnt like dresses.
  • Tomboyish Sidetails: This character has her hair in sidetails and is a tomboy.

This is basically what we did with Red-Headed Hero just redirecting to Red Is Heroic.

edited 24th Jul '16 8:09:25 PM by acrobox

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#1440: Jul 25th 2016 at 1:38:38 AM

I think it's less that it isn't a trope, and more that it doesn't work as a trope for this site. It's a specific thing used as a marker for a specific trait. However, tropers have trouble writing examples of it that follows the site rules, and to some degree it requires people to know the intentions of the creator, since there's (usually) nothing that distinquishes a coincidence from a deliberate or subconscious use of the trope.

A note on the Tomboy page would probably be enough. That way of doing it probably goes for a lot of these.

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MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#1441: Jul 25th 2016 at 4:08:37 AM

Compromise suggestion: Creating a Tomboyish Hairstyles trope that covers all possible choices of Expository Hairstyles that inherently have tomboyish connotations, thereby forcing each example to not only describe what kind of hairstyle, but how the character is tomboyish.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#1442: Jul 25th 2016 at 7:03:50 AM

... can we stop saying sidetails because the other thing that bugs me about that trope is apparently we made up an incredibly non-intuitive word for that. I can't find anywhere else that uses sidetails to mean anything but either pigtails or a ponytail to the side.

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DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#1443: Jul 25th 2016 at 7:16:51 AM

So, would Tomboyish Ponytail and Boyish Short Hair end up redirecting to this "Tomboyish Hairstyles" trope page? Is that how that would work?

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BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#1444: Jul 25th 2016 at 8:02:47 AM

[up]Imo, they should be sub-tropes for it, as they're large enough to not really justify redirecting them into a Tomboyish Hairstyles page.

[up][up]Technically what it's referring to is a sidelock or payot. But yeah

acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#1445: Jul 25th 2016 at 10:59:46 AM

the thing about Tomboyish Ponytail is that its misnamed. the trope description is actually something closer to Active Ponytail, in that a girl ties her hair back because she's active and doesn't want it to get in the way. it doesn't have anything to do with being a tomboy or not.

It needs a rename and cleanup. should not be merged under Active Sidetails or Tomboy Hair.

edited 25th Jul '16 11:00:51 AM by acrobox

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#1446: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:12:57 AM

[up] Yes and no.

Low short almost tied mullet like ponytails like this are something that tomboys can have along with actual guys like Negi

But in terms of the trope and the high ponytail however yeah its typically for the extremely active and such.

acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#1447: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:14:33 AM

the low ponytail isn't what the trope description, or page image point towards. Nor does that low ponytail have any characterization significance for girls usually.

something like Active Ponytail would also cover warriors/adventurers/superheroes who don't want to cut their hair, but want to keep it out of the way while they're doing their activity. Regardlesss of gender or personality. And it would cover say people who just do a lot of cardio or yoga.

edited 25th Jul '16 11:17:33 AM by acrobox

WhirlRX Since: Jan, 2015
#1448: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:17:02 AM

Also, those who do tie up their ponytail when they usually have loose hair means they are taking something very seriously. Like Sakaki in Azumanga Daioh during the sports festival.

acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#1449: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:19:24 AM

[up]exactly.

As a trope tying your hair in a ponytail shouldn't matter the gender or personality. It's just about keeping it out of the way without cutting it. So it could mean you live a generally active lifestyle, or its a Let's Get Dangerous! Serious Business decision.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#1450: Jul 25th 2016 at 11:21:58 AM

Yeah, but outside of Japan and similar East Asian cultures were long-haired men aren't that weird or rare (and, by proxy, men with ponytails), how often do you see male characters with sufficiently long hair for it to be possible for the trope to be employed in the first place? Long Hair Is Feminine exists for a reason, you know.

edited 25th Jul '16 11:22:54 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

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