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The Grand Unified Appearance Trope Clean-up:

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On TV Tropes, it's very common for editors to misuse appearance tropes, as well as tropes whose names make them sound like they could be appearance tropes.

Meaningful Appearance tropes are often misused in ways that overlook the "Meaningful" aspect, resulting in Zero Context Examples and misuse in the form of examples that have no meaning even if the tropes themselves are not People Sit on Chairs.

The Appearance Tropes Cleanup sandbox covers tropes with potential issues. Tropes that simply require cleanup will go through this thread, while tropes that require more significant action will have to go through the Trope Repair Shop.

April 2, 2023 update: This thread is no longer for making changes to tropes, and was brought back from the Projects Morgue solely for cleanup. Making changes to tropes is still a job for the Trope Repair Shop.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 2nd 2023 at 9:18:26 AM

acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#1401: Jul 19th 2016 at 2:49:42 PM

heres a question. for those with context could this trope be combined with Hot-Blooded Sideburns.

Pretty much adding something to that trope to say "for female examples a similar visual can be invoked with sidetails instead of sideburns.'

since hotbloodedness or activeness is often the tomboy/masculine trait

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#1402: Jul 19th 2016 at 4:19:12 PM

No. For one thing, it doesn't seem to involve hot-bloodedness. For another, that trope also has a ZCE and misuse problem.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#1403: Jul 19th 2016 at 5:48:46 PM

No this trope isn't hotblooded at all. It's rather the opposite of that, it's probably the only visual sign that the person is slightly girly. Especially in the way the face is framed, because of only 6 faces.

edited 19th Jul '16 5:53:29 PM by Memers

Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#1404: Jul 21st 2016 at 11:31:25 AM

Tomboyish Sidetails does have +1200 inbounds. How about redirecting it to Hair Tropes after dewicking is complete?

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#1405: Jul 21st 2016 at 11:36:56 AM

I have seen a lot of anime forums link that trope when explaining the unique hair style's appearance in shows, hell I have done it a lot actually.

Those inbounds will be useless since whatever we direct to it is not what they wanted to link to, it might further add to this site's anti-anime reputation too. I dont know what should be done really.

edited 21st Jul '16 11:41:29 AM by Memers

acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#1406: Jul 21st 2016 at 11:46:31 AM

here's another question, is there a place for appearance/character design tropes generally speaking, even if they should be in their own section clearly marked as something different from storytelling, plot, or character tropes.

Like how we have YMMV pages and Trivia pages, could we have Design pages or something to that effect. Or is that totally off the table.

also [up] i don't think the site is anti-anime. It has been moving away from gratuitous japanese and eastern favoritism which makes sense since it's a western based wiki anyway.

edited 21st Jul '16 11:48:37 AM by acrobox

Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#1407: Jul 21st 2016 at 12:00:14 PM

Also, here's a wick check for Redhead in Green, which I had listed on one of the previous pages as probably requiring further scrutiny.

50 out of 241 wicks

Correct use (12)

Zero context (22)

Insufficient context (only mention red hair, or only mentions green clothes) (14)

Other/misuse (2)

Results: Based on around 1/5 of all wicks, there is 24% correct use, the other 76% is either lacking in context or misuse.

Now I do think there are some valid tropes this one is trying to get at. Complementary Colors is certainly a trope, although it's not something specific to red and green, nor to hair+clothing. Green Is Irish could also be one. This one is just not worth salvaging, however.

edited 21st Jul '16 12:03:56 PM by Morgenthaler

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#1408: Jul 21st 2016 at 12:13:51 PM

[up][up] Oh I mostly agree with you on that, that damage though did hurt though some forums will actually berate you if you link this place at this point. Linking dead air when someone actually does makes that worse. A lot of people see anime tropes as 'not allowed' here too.

This trope is a serious thing in anime character design, so much so that a western made Katawa Shoujo invoked it for its tomboy and yet we are cutting it. Character design is absolutely everything in anime, every choice from the way the eyes or jaw are drawn on down to outfits is a conscious choice and stereotypes build around them because creativity is on life support.

There is only so much you can say about a character design trope other than X has em X is a Y of some sort which has already been previously explained on a character page. Not to mention many titles are self-explanatory and a description is absolutely redundant.

[up] I don't know if even that is a thing. But a more general Complementary Color Scheme trope could work.

edited 21st Jul '16 12:28:48 PM by Memers

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#1409: Jul 21st 2016 at 12:23:40 PM

In short, character design details tend to be Serious Business in Japan's anime/manga industry in comparison to anywhere else, as far as we know.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#1410: Jul 21st 2016 at 12:26:20 PM

Okay, I have been noticing that a lot of these appearance tropes are being cut (or at least noticed that sudden influx of them) and I sort of wanted to really look into this thread.

I guess on the subject on matter, the problem with Redhead in Green I guess is that, well, it is rather descriptive on the name itself. Unless someone wants to elaborate on particular part of the trope, or point out that the character is Irish and looks like one with the trope, how much context should one really add without sounding redundant or apparently "not given enough context". But that's just me.

edited 21st Jul '16 12:28:47 PM by TPPR10

Only sometimes posts
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1411: Jul 21st 2016 at 12:30:56 PM

[up]Let's challenge that from the opposite direction: what meaning does the juxtaposition of red hair and green clothing bestow upon the narrative? Does it tell us that the character is a Fiery Redhead, or descended from leprechauns? If so, those are the tropes. Just because a pattern exists does not mean that pattern has any meaning.

edited 21st Jul '16 12:31:19 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#1412: Jul 21st 2016 at 12:35:17 PM

[up] I was mainly addressing the trope in the angle of a lot of Zero Context Example. When the context itself is "Red hair, green clothes", which is pretty much told in the trope name. Whenever or not it had true meaning aside of being visually appealing, that is another matter entirely. It's hard to really elaborate on a character trope what says it all on the tin.

edited 21st Jul '16 12:36:40 PM by TPPR10

Only sometimes posts
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#1413: Jul 21st 2016 at 12:36:26 PM

A High Contrast Complementary Color Scheme trope could work in general. It's a element of art in general, a warm color with its cool opposition on the color wheel like warm red + cool blue/green.

Works in pairs too which is why Red Oni, Blue Oni is often literal when someone has complete control over the design of the characters.

[up] Trope names that completely explain themselves are a big problem here.

edited 21st Jul '16 12:42:38 PM by Memers

acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#1414: Jul 21st 2016 at 12:52:52 PM

can we call a mod for input on whether or not a standalone Design section for tropes is a workable solution, similar to the YMMV section or Trivia section.

Then it'd be a matter of moving all the design tropes off of the Main namespace, and putting them on a Design namespace, instead of cutting them wholesale.

TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#1415: Jul 21st 2016 at 12:59:19 PM

[up] I am not really sure how that would really work out. Like, I am trying to imagine that in the sense of the how the character pages of Dissidia Final Fantasy splits the character tropes note  and I can't quite imagine it working with a different tab. It would basically be "Character Page Part 2: Costume Boogaloo".

Only sometimes posts
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1416: Jul 21st 2016 at 1:13:21 PM

No, character design, while interesting, has nothing to do with tropes as we define them. We aren't here to be the wikia page for a work, showcasing every single miniscule attribute or property of each character; we're here to describe the tropes present in the work.

Character pages are an organizational tool, not a feature unto themselves.

edited 21st Jul '16 1:13:27 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#1417: Jul 21st 2016 at 2:46:22 PM

No, character design, while interesting, has nothing to do with tropes as we define them.

This is a pretty strong assertion, and I'm not really sure I'd agree with it. As somebody who has an interest in visual design for fiction, I'm inclined to feel that there definitely are tropes involved.

acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#1418: Jul 21st 2016 at 3:04:40 PM

huh i hadn't sen that before, i quite like the way that dissidia breaks down character tropes into sections. whether or not that's wiki standard

No, character design, while interesting, has nothing to do with tropes as we define them.

is that true even in say literature, where describing the look of the character is directly tied to informing the readers imagination of the action on the page and guiding expectations.

edited 21st Jul '16 3:08:17 PM by acrobox

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1419: Jul 21st 2016 at 3:23:07 PM

Character design is important when it is paired with a characterization trope. "Is a redhead" is not a characterization trope. "Has a fiery personality" is. That the former is often paired with the latter as a form of visual shorthand is a component of the "fiery personality" trope, not a trope unto itself.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#1420: Jul 21st 2016 at 3:58:48 PM

In the case of a 'fiery redhead' it's usually because the belief is that the person has a fiery personality because they have red hair - the stereotype is that it's the red hair that somehow causes or explains the reason for them having the fiery personality (or short-tempered, really that's what the stereotype boils down to "short-tempered because red hair"). That's how the two become linked as a visual short-hand - it's that stereotype that causes people to conclude "that character has red hair so they're going to have a fiery personality".

I've never figured out the origin for the pairing of red hair and green clothes, but every time I've seen it used in the work it seems to be related to a belief - either in-universe or on the part of the creator - that green and red go together, so it's mostly some kind of Complementary Colour that I've been encountering.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
lexicon Since: May, 2012
acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#1422: Jul 21st 2016 at 4:12:11 PM

so then, would Tomboyish Sidetails in theory be salvageable in the same way Fiery Redhead is.

And what would sufficient context to ZCE's look like in the case of either of those tropes.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1423: Jul 21st 2016 at 4:19:01 PM

Well, the example would have to explain the personality trait that the visual appearance indicates, with specific examples. It's especially important to note if the work makes a point of calling out the relationship, because it illustrates the intentional, rather than accidental, use of the trope.

The problem with things like Tomboyish Sidetails is that the Tomboy trope would already apply to the character, and the explanation of "how is this character shown to be a tomboy?" would be given there. Thus, the example of the appearance "trope" would be redundant with Tomboy, only pointing out that they also have sidetails.

This is the core issue: the fact that the character has sidetails is complementary to the Tomboy trope, and is therefore part of that trope, not a separate bit of trivia that dangles off the edge of it.

edited 21st Jul '16 4:19:12 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#1425: Jul 21st 2016 at 8:10:22 PM

and i apologize because i'm being pedantic, i'm just trying to find the line for sake of cleanup,

Wouldn't Fiery Redhead's context be complementary and redundant to Hot-Blooded, the same way Tomboyish Sidetails is complementary and redundant to Tomboy.


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