TLP Crash Rescue - Fixing prematurely launched TLPs and pages

Editing is step four of the writing process. Any page that isn't in Unpublished Works or the Sandbox/ Namespace is considered a published work.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

ok, now I confused...I am not putting together an essay, or a demonstration or anything like I did in school.

There's no beginning, middle or end.

There's no introduction, body or conclusion.

I am not trying to prove anything in the page itself (my posts here are a different matter). I am making no arguement or piece of work with the page itself.

I do apologize, I don't mean to be frustrating. I just am having trouble understanding.

You are still writing. You are putting words together to communicate. That's writing. You aren't writing an essay, or fiction. You are, however, writing a wiki page. Use a word processor. Get it finished, then put it up on the wiki.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

It isn't a school essay, but trope pages here are three-four paragraph long informative works. The Recap/ pages are narrative summaries of external works. An example list usually contains multiple works, with about one informative paragraph per work.

None of this means posters have to be stuffy or cite evidence for any facts. But it does mean people need to

1. Think about what they want to write.
2. Write it all down.
3. Organize what was written. (We have a number of guidelines on how to organize pages and wicks)
4. Check the writing for errors and remove them.

all before actually posting anything.

Most of the "stub" pages in this thread come from posters not following this procedure before hitting the save button. If pages aren't fixed, it lowers the quality of the wiki, which means fewer people will want to come.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Today's worklist:

• Plot.AJCO: Need more opinions.
• Super Beard Bros: Stub work page; creator messaged.
• That One Video Gamer: Again with the misused Franchise/ namespace; ~Confuzzled Koala, Franchise/ is only for 3-or-more medium works.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Alright, rather than intentionally continue my unintentional war on semantics, I wish to get back to the regular topic on the Recap pages.

I still feel the list is helpful for others, as I believe others do. I do apologize for posting it prematurely, I will save it in a text file next time (it is what I do for my Bulbapedia projects).

If you don't like it in the recap page, can it be used in the main page and still be an index? That way, people can still use it, and it isn't a "waste" of a recap page.

I plan on making a new thread to review how the Franchise/ pages have been working. The idea of being the multimedia page isn't always there, and I want to see actual numbers on use before I try to go on the warpath.

I spoke with AJCO's creator via P Ms, and they should start using the Recap/ namespace instead of Plot/. They'll probably need some guidance on it, but I think a So You Want To was just made for Recap/, too. I'll try to keep half an eye on their activity and give advice when I can.

Super Beard Bros looks like the same group of people for the misused Franchise page. SBB got edits quickly enough, it looks okay. Needs more Cross Wicking.

Step one of the writing process: think about what you're going to write. Why would people want a list of TV series and episodes? What does the list tell them?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

1. A comprehensive list of all the recap pages that cover a Christmas episode (as opposed to a scene or series that is christmas-related).
2. This list would allow for better crosswicking, as I have seen at the time of making the list, trope-to-recap links were 13, while recap-to-trope links were 100 (including many pages that summarized a series on one page).
3. Create an index so people can navigate from one episode to the other, while on a recap itself.
4. Allow the trope page to be reduced to only aversions, subversion, varities, subtropes, and any other non-played straight examples.
   1. Might allow it to be easier to navigation of source code, as it is smaller.
   2. Keeps it from getting to big, need in it to be broken into subpages.

edited 29th Jun '14 7:46:24 AM by bud0011

Let's address point 3 first: why do people want to go from episode to episode?

Now point 4 (and subbullet B): Why is that a good thing? Why would it be good to keep the page smaller? The original reason for listing an example list at all is on Fast Eddie's troper page.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

- regarding #3 -

to be honest - and I have been wracking my brain over this for hours now - I file under it under Ruleof Cool.

As I was sorting through the list of recaps, I came upon the Digimon series. Exploring though, it brought back memories of the Hot Springs Episode.

And I thought, if there was an index, I could use the navigation arrows at the bottom of the page to see other Episodes that are like it.

I explored the wiki, saw nothing that specifically said that I couldn't, and any time I asked before if I can do something ( https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Recap.Recap#81557, https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=14039028770A82049600 ), I never got a reply.

With the number one rule of wiki, be bold, in mind, I put together the list, and started doing research for others.

I don't intend on making these lists for non-episode tropes, but to me, it make sense to have them for episode tropes.

so, to answer your question more directly: see what other pages there exists. Not that I am saying this wiki should model itself after wikipedia, but I have seen multiple different navigation methods (lists, series sidebar templates, bottom navboxes, etc.) to allow for different methods of grouping similar pages.

So, that is the basic idea here, allow for an additional way for people to navigate through the pages. I know I would like it, and based on my experience, there will be others who also like it. It may not be a lot, or a majority, or anything like that; but I believe other people will say the same.

- regarding #4 (4B, someone really needs to allow for non-numeric listings) -

This one is a little bit more stretching it... why do we break up pages that grow too large, if it takes effectively takes the examples off the page? I am coming to believe that "page" has a contextually-altered definition here, but from my experience, breaking a page into 5 subpages, plus the main page, makes 6 pages overall. (Up To Eleven with Fridge Logic - an entire sub-wiki?)

Breaking a page up takes away from the main page in, probably in an attempt to keep browsers from crashing, or the PHP engine from stalling, or something else, due to the size.

But if that is the case, why not break every page up? avoid the process of needing to break it up in the first place, and then scrap the "have-to-keep-examples-on-page" thing entirely.

My point being, if it is size that is the concern, then keeping it small should be a good goal to keep. Prevents it from being

- Overall Conclusion for the post -

Sorry for the long winded response. But I never understood the "do only as necessary" mentality, especially when it comes to wikis. The benefit of a wiki is to allow for pages like this to exist...unless the database is running out of room, in which case database trimming would be a necessity.

Actually, come to think about it...if people were concerned about the database...then I could see people wanting to not waste space on something like this...

...then again, I can list hundreds of pages, that in my opinion, don't help the site and a waste of space. However, that is well beyond the scope of this topic, (and I try not to push my opinion onto others) so I'll leave that alone for now.

Hope this answers your questions, and I apologize if I insulted anyone in the process. I am still learning the ropes of this wiki ^^.

edited 29th Jun '14 6:30:53 PM by bud0011

This is what I've been giving you these leading questions for. The example lists are how we explain the tropes by showing similar works. That's how we organize trope examples. Your indexes are redundant to this purpose, and because you have to read the entire page, it is less useful to the average reader.

I think you haven't read ~Fast Eddie's troper page yet. You should do that.

edited 29th Jun '14 7:50:03 PM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Methinks we'll need a discussion on list pages like Chaos D 1 List at some point; there are a lot of them and they are all in Main/.

Seems like there is nothing for me to add to the discussion with bud.

Worklist:

• Dirty Potter: ~Akriloth2160, shouldn't this go into AudioPlay/?
• On The Tropes: So, Recap/ or no?
• Tempest (Frozen): Stub work page; creator messaged.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Then move all the examples back on the main pages of all the tropes, as it is apparently contradicting your efforts to list examples of related works.

Also, how do people have to read the entire page to get to my list? The link is near the top...unless it disappesrs as I have seen page lists do when they get to long.

Speaking of redundancy, what's the purpose of saying a work has a recap page, when people can see it at the top of the page?

back on topic

I have read Fast Eddie's page, and see nothing that go against the overall goal of the wiki. But if helps, i'll drop point 4, for at this point, it seems like a dead horse. (Maybe undead)

With me mentioning how Wikipedia allows for multiple forms of navigation, it was to show that it allows different ways to organize the same information, because, from what I have seen, different people use different ways to navigate the wiki.

The same with the case here. You have a non-indexed list of contextual examples, broken down medium. I give an indexed list of examples, stripped down to the titles, as the context text already appears in the wiki, on the recap pages.

Nothing I am doing is stopping anyone from doing what they wish to do. I am just showing a different way of handling it, for the people who may prefer to navigate via that method.

edited 30th Jun '14 5:44:33 PM by bud0011

I feel like the most useful thing about these holiday recap pages would be to just add links to the episode recaps to the holiday pages themselves.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.

I'm not sure about where else to go about Mr Bill. It looks like it should be at WesternAnimation.The Mr Bill Show.

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty

This place makes no sense to me. Not blaming anyone, but there are inconsistencies everywhere.

• For instance, The leftside menu on the main page...why does it disappear when you enter the forums? or change color, collapsibility, etc. in YKTTW and other places? why does it disappear while editing?
• Our how I've seen "Yu-Gi-Oh! The Abridged Series" listed under 4 different mediums: "Web Original", "Web Animation", "New Media" and "Abridged Series".
• Why is it broken into 2 subpages based on the Grouping of Letters, while One Piece is broken into 8?
• Why is every subpage related to the "series" namespace called "Live Action TV"?
• Why is some pages missing tropes while others are missing summaries?
• Why do Headscratchers or Darth Wiki exist? They contribute nothing to the main purpose of the wiki. They have no examples. If people want to solve problems, they can go to the forums.
• Why is there a preview button for edits and not for forum posts?

and trust me, I have much more. But alas, you all are worried about a small list that is hurting no one, and doing no damage. There's almost an index for everything under the sun...but this can't exist?

Also, I think I figured out why no one flagged the hot springs list, but they did for the Christmas ;)

edited 30th Jun '14 6:38:05 PM by bud0011

Today's worklist:

• Chef!: Stub work page; creator messaged.
• Dancing Banana: Stub article (only two good examples) in wrong namespace; been around for a while and thus already cutlisted.
• Digimon Wonder Swan Series: ~Aiguille, is this supposed to be a disambiguation?
• Joel Goldsmith: Stub work page; creator was messaged.
• Mr Bill: Why exactly did you make this page in the Main/ namespace, ~jedimickey? It doesn't belong there.
• On The Tropes: Still need input.
• Sonicthe Other Movie: Stub work page; creator messaged.
• The Suburban Chronicles: By ~Ebbyu, they need some editing help.
• Twitch Plays Pokemon Black 2: Stub work page; creator messaged.
• Virtual Pet: Stub trope without YKTTW.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

These questions are more suited to Ask The Tropers than this thread.

---

• I think you're right that Main.On The Tropes goes in Recap.On The Tropes, as it indexes the recap episodes. But isn't there also work by Eddie to make a new part of the website for it?
• I just hit up The Suburban Chronicles. I didn't seek indexes, tho.
• Virtual Pet: I can't tell if it was meant as a Useful Notes or trope, but the current page would only work in Laconic. Should probably be cutlisted.

• Joel must have been improved, because it looks full, now. But I fail to see why it goes in Music/ instead of Creator/.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Another worklist:

• Dimension Heroes: An interesting case; all on-page examples are ZCE but there are plenty of wicks. I am reminded of ~Xtifr's statement regarding people adding ZCE on a work page and full context on the trope page.
• Joel Goldsmith: One trope ain't quite enough for a work page; that said, namespace is a legit issue; I'll call ~undertroper in.
• On The Tropes: Yeah, part of the issue is that we don't know whether it will still be needed after Eddie's announced setup.
• Projectile Pocketing: Trope with only a handful of examples and no YKTTW by ~Wandering Tedium.
• Virtual Pet: Now that I notice, it's a recently (re-)created page by ~Zany Dragon.

edited 1st Jul '14 5:01:54 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Dimension Heroes: I think the solution to fix this page would be:

1. First, check the wicks for Dimension Heroes.
2. If the trope examples aren't ZCEs and have sufficient context, add them to the work's page.
3. When that's done, comment out all of Dimension Heroes remaining ZCEs that couldn't be filled in

edited 1st Jul '14 5:37:56 AM by MacronNotes

Macron's notes

Step 0: move the page to the Literature/ namespace ;). Otherwise, I approve.

Virtual Pet: I think ~Zany doesn't know about YKTTW, based on the discussion page.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

• re: Digimon Wonder Swan Series - As per Fighteer via ATT, it was erroneously categorized. I however, have no familiarity with the series, rather I came upon on it and queried ATT as to its use (08:11:37 PM 30th Jun 2014).

Cut list backlog has been cleared.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

sorry for the topic...eh...cut...

Ok, if I do remove the list...could I ask for the help integrating into the trope page?

And, I am aware I just launched a lot of pages with nothing but folders... but it was at the request of a friend of mine, who is going to help me divide up the rest of the unsorted recaps and get it all done faster :)

Sorry, but what is wrong with the namespace of Joel Goldsmith? I don't know why, but it looks to me it follows the trend written in the composers main page.