TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

TLP Crash Rescue - Fixing prematurely launched TLPs and pages

Go To

Prematurely launched pages and pages that weren't fully fleshed out at the point of launching, are a big problem. Since these usually share several problems at once, this thread is aimed at re-running them through the TLP for fixing - the usual fix - or cutting them if they are too bad.

Problems this thread deals with include bad names, not enough/bad examples, unclear description, etc.

For the interested, here's a list of recently created pages. Launches

Note: Please do not request a mod to unlaunch drafts that don't have any issues besides lacking a launch notice/24hr launch notice. While 24hr launch notices are mandatory, there are a few exceptions to the rule. If you see a draft's sponsor launch a TLP without an announcement, it's best to remind them of our TLP Guidelines first. If they continue to repeatedly launch drafts without a launch notice, you can report them on Ask The Tropers or the TLP Community Issues thread.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jun 24th 2023 at 12:24:55 PM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#8001: Apr 4th 2020 at 6:16:15 PM

I agree 100%. It's so frustrating when a draft that has, say, 15 bombs and 5 hats can be launched at any time, as if the bombs mean literally nothing; we made it an official rule that you need to focus on the net hats, but halting a launch when there's less than 5 net-hats is something I put on the wishlist months ago.

I also like the idea people brought up of having a waiting period before hats and bombs can be added. Like a three-day drafting period, and then the draft is open for hatting and bombing. It'll at least encourage people to give feedback first and judgement second, and give the sponsors less reason to rush the process.

Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 4th 2020 at 9:17:26 AM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
ElBuenCuate Since: Oct, 2010
#8002: Apr 4th 2020 at 6:43:24 PM

Has a Moderator seen this forum? Since bombs actually being useful has been discussed a lot there.

4tell0life4 Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
#8003: Apr 4th 2020 at 10:59:24 PM

The system can only recognize "5 hats = launch" and "5 bombs = discard". They're currently not "in the same gauge/line" (i.e the system can't recognize that bombs invalidate hats in equal number)

We can never truly eradicate the coronavirus, but we can suppress its threat like influenza
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#8004: Apr 4th 2020 at 11:10:29 PM

[up] And that's what we need to fix. We need bombs to invalidate hats; they are the anti-hat, after all.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Meppe Mysterious Stranger Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Mysterious Stranger
#8005: Apr 4th 2020 at 11:21:43 PM

How about making it so that only the original sponsor can access the launch button for the first 2 months?

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#8006: Apr 4th 2020 at 11:28:16 PM

[up] Stops early rogue-launching, but creates issues if the sponsor put it Up For Grabs or is otherwise ignoring the rules. For example, Stealth Launching would still be possible.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Piterpicher Veteran Editor IV from Poland, for real (Series 2) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Veteran Editor IV
#8007: Apr 5th 2020 at 1:16:30 PM

In terms of the unskippable wait time before confirming the launch, it wouldn't be done all the time. More like until you've launched at least 3 drafts and have been on the site for at least 1 month after launching the first one. That's probably enough time

Anyway, here's another idea I've said I'd post today, and it doesn't require any technical changes. How about, once a draft reaches 5 hats, someone posts a comment/PM to the sponsor if they haven't made the draft Up for Grabs that it has reached enough hats for anyone to launch, but if they still intend to work on it, they could request a hold to the moderators by PM-ing one of them. After they think it's ready, they can PM the mods again to request unhold as they plan to launch the draft tomorrow or something. If someone takes over the draft per Up for Grabs rules and eventually decide it's launching time, they can PM a moderator as well (potentially subject to harsher scrutiny). I think this could be a good way to prevent unwanted launches, as we'd know if the OP wants to launch now or later while still letting them claim credit for the launch and letting others take over if the maker becomes inactive. Also, if hats>=5 but hats-discards<5, we could potentially note in the PM that the OP can't launch the draft in this state. Furthermore, if the draft creator doesn't respond to the PM within a week, the draft is put on hold by a moderator automatically.

This is still a rough idea and I'd like feedback on how to improve it, but I think it'd be effective at stopping rogue launching altogether and not require any significant updates or work.

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#8008: Apr 5th 2020 at 1:27:28 PM

Maybe, but that'd require more work on the mod's part and we'd all have to get into the habit of doing it. Plus, literally any draft can be rogue launched; half of the time, it's the abandoned ones that get launched, and we can't exactly ask the mods to put literally every 5-hat draft on hold. It'll definitely help, but I think coding changes do need to happen to ensure the problem stops for good in every possible scenario.

We need solutions that'll stop:

  • People from launching a draft with an active sponsor
  • People from launching abandoned drafts
  • People from stealth launching their own drafts, both recently-updated and seemingly abandoned
  • People from launching without enough hats
  • People from misusing hats and bombs in general, especially in terms of using socks, which has happened more often than you'd think

Some possible solutions would be:

  • Your "put on hold" idea
  • The launch button only showing up for draft-contributors, which would also help the first one
  • This one is hard, but I guess putting it on hold can also prevent stealth launches, as a mod would need to be informed of them wanting to launch and could refuse to lift the hold if the draft isn't ready
  • Making bombs actually do something
  • Taking away hat and bomb anonymity and making hat and bomb reasons compulsory, so we'd be able to identify if a draft is getting a lot of suspicious hats and bombs, or if the hats and bombs are given for invalid or resolved reasons.

Yes it'd take a lot of coding, but the TLP is broken and needs these fixes.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
ElBuenCuate Since: Oct, 2010
#8009: Apr 5th 2020 at 2:00:52 PM

I'm not a programmer, so I don't know how ridiculous this sounds.

But to stop launching other people's drafts, how about a "Up for grabs" button?

A button that someone can switch to become sponsor of a draft, and only them can launch it.

But the button automatically switches back to free every two months.

Seems more complicated than I initially thought, but it may work.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#8010: Apr 5th 2020 at 2:03:19 PM

It should be apparent that our developers are not particularly focused on this site right now (they have a lot of different sites to work on), and so any proposal we make needs to be a) solid enough that we can hand it over without making dozens of changes after the fact or backseat driving the development process; b) simple enough that it doesn't require a ton of work to code.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Piterpicher Veteran Editor IV from Poland, for real (Series 2) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Veteran Editor IV
#8011: Apr 5th 2020 at 2:12:34 PM

I know that they're busy and working on several different sites, this is why my most recent proposal exists as a codeless way of draft protection (TBH, EBC's proposal doesn't seem hard to code either, but still needs coding). Please tell me, Fighteer, would this putting drafts on hold as described in previous post be viable (though we'd have to decide on what to do with very old abandoned drafts as just putting all on hold seems like a ton of work, maybe wait until the TLP discard project considers its work done and the backlog mostly trimmed)? I agree with WJ that finding a solution to every scenario is a good idea, but I don't feel like we'll be able to get her ideas too quickly, even if they work. Really, we just need a solution for now (or the next few months, assuming we wait for the TLP discard thread to do their job) that requires next to no admin work IMO.

Edited by Piterpicher on Apr 5th 2020 at 11:18:01 AM

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#8012: Apr 5th 2020 at 2:29:24 PM

It might be possible to have all drafts automatically be put on hold until a moderator releases them. I can ask about that at least.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 5th 2020 at 5:32:29 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#8013: Apr 5th 2020 at 2:36:27 PM

I don't think every draft should be put on hold; that screws with our ability to discard ones that need to be discarded, especially when doing the discard project.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Miss_Desperado https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YD2i1FzUYA from somewhere getting rained on by Puget Sound Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#8014: Apr 5th 2020 at 2:37:34 PM

There used to be a thread for brainstorming ideas like these, called TLP Reform, but it was closed. I can't fathom how Septimus Heap could possibly think it was finished serving its purpose: Obviously we weren't done talking about how to reform TLP, obviously we have yet to see ANY ideas implemented, so the only thing closing THAT thread accomplished was just scattering the discussion to other threads like this one.

Edited by Miss_Desperado on Apr 5th 2020 at 2:48:27 AM

If not for this anchor I'd be dancing between the stars. At least I can try to write better vampire stories than Twilight.
Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#8015: Apr 6th 2020 at 8:19:52 AM

Given the nature of the TLP, I'd be in favor of forcing tropes to gain moderator approval before launching.

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
Miss_Desperado https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YD2i1FzUYA from somewhere getting rained on by Puget Sound Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#8016: Apr 6th 2020 at 10:30:34 AM

I can't remember if Fright Beside Them was reported here or how long ago, I suspect it was rogue launched or stealth launched. It Needs a Better Name, and the discussion on what to rename it wasn't finished yet by the time it was launched. There were suggestions being thrown around, but no votes.

Edited by Miss_Desperado on Apr 6th 2020 at 10:32:34 AM

If not for this anchor I'd be dancing between the stars. At least I can try to write better vampire stories than Twilight.
WaterBlap Blapper of Water Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
#8017: Apr 6th 2020 at 12:48:18 PM

[up] This was already brought up with two people saying to send it back (March 2020).

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
StFan Since: Jan, 2001
#8018: Apr 6th 2020 at 3:01:44 PM

Pat et Stanley: just-created work page with no tropes. Let's hope it'll soon gain enough.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#8019: Apr 7th 2020 at 3:34:17 AM

Sent a stub notifier to that troper.

That brainstorming thread was closed because the suggestions had been passed on and there is no indication that leaving it open would result in the suggestions being implemented more quickly.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#8020: Apr 7th 2020 at 1:03:35 PM

It's just unfortunate, because there's so many great ideas that have come out afterward and now there's nowhere we can really discuss them without the discussion being scattered and unfocused. I have like, at least 5 ideas on the wishlist now for improving the TLP that I don't think will ever be seen because they're just buried in a sea of queries and there's no official place to post them.

At least, could we make a TLP Reform Thread V.2, and keep it up for as long as we need to discuss our ideas for?

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
4tell0life4 Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
#8021: Apr 8th 2020 at 9:32:10 PM

HULK MASH!-Up's title doesn't say anything about it being a "Hulk Expy".

We can never truly eradicate the coronavirus, but we can suppress its threat like influenza
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#8022: Apr 10th 2020 at 7:02:04 AM

Neutral Party Has A Point launched with a net -8 hats and criticism about the scope of the trope.

[up]"Mash-Up"

[down]Yep. Particularly irritating because it launched 5 minutes after my proper launch of Horrible Housing sad

Edited by Synchronicity on Apr 10th 2020 at 9:05:36 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#8023: Apr 10th 2020 at 7:03:20 AM

Woah seems the OP totally blew off the concerns

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#8024: Apr 10th 2020 at 7:08:29 AM

Yeah he's been completely stonewalling every criticism and not even trying to address them other than "lalalalala can't hear you."

Well that's not true. He did change the utterly nonsensical name.

But yeah. This is a stealth launch of a trope that was comically not ready. "Fortunately" he didn't bother to wick it so... yeah.

HULK MASH!-Up really could've used an actual crowner (and launch announcement) rather than Nubian's... kinda ad hoc tallying. I don't particularly like the name it wound up with but I wouldn't necessarily say it would have to be sent back.

Edited by Larkmarn on Apr 10th 2020 at 11:57:34 AM

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#8025: Apr 10th 2020 at 8:58:32 AM

~vance256, TLP is not a speedbump for you to get past as quickly as possible by any means available, it's a vital tool to make sure trope ideas are properly formed.

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.

Total posts: 12,778
Top