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TLP Crash Rescue - Fixing prematurely launched TLPs and pages

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Prematurely launched pages, pages that weren't fully fleshed out at the point of launching, are a big problem. Since these usually share several problems at once, this thread is aimed at re-running them through YKTTW for fixing - the usual fix - or cutting them if they are too bad.

Problems this thread deals with include bad names, not enough/bad examples, unclear description, no crosswicking etc.

For the interested, here's a list of recently created pages. Launches

edited 8th Aug '17 10:10:12 AM by SeptimusHeap

alnair20aug93 hablar dias, spa, asiento, dedo del pie en inglé from Furryppines Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
hablar dias, spa, asiento, dedo del pie en inglé
Mar 28th 2017 at 4:03:51 AM

About Abled in the Adaptation, ( draft ), can this be sent back, since there was no consensus that this was ready to launch?

That's all there is. There isn't anymore. "YOWZA!!!"
alnair20aug93 hablar dias, spa, asiento, dedo del pie en inglé from Furryppines Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
hablar dias, spa, asiento, dedo del pie en inglé
Mar 28th 2017 at 7:08:23 AM

I don't want to make the same mistake on what happened to Walpurgisnacht because I impatiently asked to cutlist the page when no one immediately responded.

edited 28th Mar '17 7:32:51 AM by alnair20aug93

That's all there is. There isn't anymore. "YOWZA!!!"
Madrugada MOD Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Mar 28th 2017 at 8:06:32 AM

Abled in the Adaptation has been unlaunched.

edited 28th Mar '17 8:06:46 AM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
alnair20aug93 hablar dias, spa, asiento, dedo del pie en inglé from Furryppines Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
hablar dias, spa, asiento, dedo del pie en inglé
Mar 28th 2017 at 8:40:50 AM

Dank je. I would consider on unlaunching Waiting Skeleton, but since the sponsor was also the one who launched it, and it's a good trope, we'll leave it best untouched in a sense.

edited 28th Mar '17 8:50:02 AM by alnair20aug93

That's all there is. There isn't anymore. "YOWZA!!!"
WaterBlap Blapper of Water Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
Mar 28th 2017 at 2:10:05 PM

[up] I'm kind of confused. You think it should be unlaunched or kept? Its description could use some work, considering the Example as a Thesis, but I think it could be kept because it looks like everything's there that ought to be there... if only the minimum.

[witty saying]
alnair20aug93 hablar dias, spa, asiento, dedo del pie en inglé from Furryppines Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
hablar dias, spa, asiento, dedo del pie en inglé
Mar 29th 2017 at 10:25:26 AM

[up]I say keep, although, what you said, the description needs a bit of work.
Also, on Walpurgisnacht, can you help me collaborate with the draft?

That's all there is. There isn't anymore. "YOWZA!!!"
WaterBlap Blapper of Water Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
Mar 29th 2017 at 12:59:06 PM

[up] I think Walpurgisnacht could be brought to the YKTTW workstation thread.

Weredragon seems to be in need of some help. The title instantly sounds like a version of Our Werebeasts Are Different but specific to dragons. It was brought up in the draft that this may overlap too much with Scaled Up. Someone mentioned making the trope specific to dragons who turn into humans, but another person mentioned that we already have Humanity Ensues.

edited 29th Mar '17 12:59:19 PM by WaterBlap

[witty saying]
Larkmarn Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Mar 29th 2017 at 8:08:25 PM

Regarding Heritage Disconnect... Could someone explain to me how it isn't covered by The Whitest Black Guy?

Chytus Very Fine Dodger from South Texas
Very Fine Dodger
Mar 31st 2017 at 6:59:51 AM

I found Escape Journey. The page was created August of last year with only four tropes, all of them zero context. It has not improved whatsoever in the months since.

edited 31st Mar '17 7:00:19 AM by Chytus

Theatre_Maven_3695 from Ontario, Canada Relationship Status: Charming Titania with a donkey face
Mar 31st 2017 at 2:57:51 PM

Sent the creator a ZCE notifier. Should we see where it goes from there, or just chop it?

WaterBlap Blapper of Water Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
Apr 1st 2017 at 10:08:03 AM

Unresolved Motions:

Note: The folder below titled "Cutlisting the following" is just for the pages where a notifier was sent over a week ago with little improvement.

[Series.Twenty Four Legacy and Webcomic.The Steps In Love were cut and VideoGame.Discovery Freelancer was not cut. These works have been moved to the appropriate lists. Also, I'll be archiving the present Resolved list tomorrow.]

This post (after this line) is an attempt to tally everyone's votes.

If you want to be included in this tally, please use the verbiage in the folder titled "The key to the tallies" (not super formal). (This folder will be updated to reflect common sayings at some point.)

None of the following lists include "reported" tallies. They only include "primary sources," so to speak. Otherwise, we could find ourselves doubling votes very quickly. That said, please do not "re-vote." Feel free to continue the discussion and make sure your point is heard (I won't stop you). If you are unsure of whether your vote was heard, please link to your previous post.

Folderized because there are so many lines!

    open/close all folders 

    The key to the tallies 
  • c = voted to cut or said/implied this was Not A Trope, "cut for now, look into it later";note 
  • sb = send back or "cut and send back" which is the same thing as this;
  • k = voted "keep" or "I'm fine with it";note 
  • un = unsure, not I'm not sure but they aren't sure ("further discussion needed");
  • n = neutral, they expressed neutrality or abstained for some reason;
  • dv = didn't vote but commented or brought to our attention (please vote);
  • trs = they voted to bring this to TRS, they commented that this was too old for this thread;
  • ??? = I don't know how to count this one, I'm not sure what they voted;

The "dv" votes may double up for this first batch of lists. I don't have a separate "didn't vote" list and I'm not going through everything again lol.

"The Same But More Specific" and "The Same But More" don't mean cut. They could mean to send back for revision, or that you're unsure and want to know what other people think, or — yes — to cut. I ain't got time to think about what you're saying; I'm too busy countin'.

    Unresolved Issues (~26) 
Now alphabetized.

    Issues with Little or No Response 
This folder is for those recently launched tropes that were brought up but nobody has responded to yet. This is just a summary. These tropes are in the Unresolved Issues folder. Tallies shown in this folder may not be up-to-date (I just copy-pasted these items). Fewer than three votes and/or just no conflicting votes (I don't want to double-up these lists too much).

Do not look in this folder for the new stuff. This is for that which just really ain't gettin' no response.

    Almost Resolved Votes 
The list:

What this list is:

These tropes either have four or more votes or only "neutral" votes. They may also be too old for this thread.

We don't have a crowner in this thread, but I think we should only "motion to call" a resolution when it has nearly 2:1 (cut-to-keep ratio, trs-to-keep ratio, keep-to-cut ratio, etc.). Not super formal, but it's something to think of for "neutral" or "keep" decisions.

  • If the only votes are "neutral" or "didn't vote," then I think we can call it after 3. Nobody cares about it so nobody "votes". le shrug
  • This folder is also where "send to TRS" tropes go if they are demonstrably too old for this thread. Vote tallies will be included here, and such tropes will be taken off the Unresolved Issues list.
    • If the trope is both too old and clearly deserving cutting rather than sending to TRS, it may also be on this list.

    Works Brought Up with No Resolution: 
This is for non-trope pages brought up in this thread. I add items to the top of this list.

    Resolved: 

    Problem Troper Reported: 
Once these are resolved, the troper names get taken off and are not archived. We don't need to gossip after the fact, and I'm pretty sure the mods have their own lists for this sort of thing.

  • [placeholder]

    Other Salient Discussions You Can Participate In 
I'm not going to summarize what people are saying in these discussions, but I don't want to "overshadow" the non-voting discussions we have here either. Linked comments will be to where the discussion began, and sub-bullet links will be topics that spawned from the original discussion (if it's catching on as its own discussion). You can then work forwards if you want.

edited 3rd Apr '17 6:32:39 AM by WaterBlap

[witty saying]
Apr 2nd 2017 at 12:08:15 AM

Owens Scrapbook is a stub, I've just sent the standard notifier

Apr 4th 2017 at 3:14:48 AM

Looking at the history of FanWorks.Retired Badass was created by someone who doesn't know what they were doing

WaterBlap Blapper of Water Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
Apr 4th 2017 at 5:36:23 AM

[up] I put that on the cutlist and reported the troper in ATT.

[down] I put that on the cutlist and reported that troper in ATT.

edited 6th Apr '17 9:58:55 PM by WaterBlap

[witty saying]
Apr 6th 2017 at 9:22:27 PM

Analysis.Outside Context Problem was created by a new account and it doesn't seem to have anything to do with analysis or anything for that matter

MarqFJA Fiat justitia, et pereat mundus from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Fiat justitia, et pereat mundus
Apr 7th 2017 at 5:33:48 AM

@Water Blap: From what I can tell from the description, Humanity Ensues seems to be about nonhumans transforming into humans without the transformation being necessarily voluntary, i.e. it can be a case of imposed transformation. Weredragon would be specifically about dragons who have Humanshifting as an actual (super)power instead.

That being said, I wouldn't mind lumping them under a Werebeast general trope for all kinds of werecreatures that aren't werewolves, since the latter are so iconic and are technically the Trope Namer and Trope Codifier if not also Trope Maker for the modern conception of werebeasts that they do have a solid case for having their own trope. In fact, Werebeast does redirect to Our Werebeasts Are Different.

edited 7th Apr '17 5:37:33 AM by MarqFJA

When we are crushing the black hearts of our oppressors, we will find our hands blackened.
MorningStar1337 Does this look like the face of Mercy? from 🤔
Does this look like the face of Mercy?
Apr 8th 2017 at 6:47:39 AM

I just came here for an opinion, but one of my drafts, Sadly Mythcharacterized was launched without my knowledge (or consent, but I was rather indecisive in launching the page, didn't get any response on the workstation thread beyond a certain point and procrastinated on the name crowner). The page isn't indexed, folderized or crosswicked. But did get 9 hats and 0 bombs.

For future reference. This trope was one of 3 draft made to tackle the Everybody Hates Ares problem several weeks back. I was wondering if the page is fine as is or if it should go back to the drawing board.

edited 8th Apr '17 6:49:07 AM by MorningStar1337

"We're TV Tropes. We don't need bots to ruin people's lives.". -nightwyrm_zero
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Apr 8th 2017 at 7:07:00 AM

The preemptive Launch was not right, but the page itself looks very good. I would suggest that you message the Launcher about the Launch, and ask if they're going to finish the work on it. If they aren't , finish up the crosswicking and indexing and let the page fly free. You did a good job on it.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
MorningStar1337 Does this look like the face of Mercy? from 🤔
Does this look like the face of Mercy?
Apr 8th 2017 at 7:30:00 AM

[up] Okay I sent a PM to the troper that launched the page. I will wait for a response before doing anything with this page or my other TLP proposals.

"We're TV Tropes. We don't need bots to ruin people's lives.". -nightwyrm_zero
WaterBlap Blapper of Water Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
Apr 10th 2017 at 7:34:55 AM

I'm posting this on Monday in case we have weekenders or others who might unfortunately miss it.

If you haven't heard about this page yet, please check out TLP Reform Statistics.

I would like to ask everyone what they think about including a crowner for this thread. I can volunteer time to update it as described in this comment. Because we have so many options, I think "vote UP to cut" and "vote DOWN to NOT cut (and do something else as determined by discussion)" would be reasonable options for such a crowner. I think it would be more difficult for drive-by reports (i.e. those without follow up) to slip through the cracks. This would at least give us a list of tropes (at the bottom of each page) that still need discussion. It could be updated similarly as the Image Suggestion Thread (but with "Cut," "Take to Discussion," "Sent Back (link)," and "Consensus to Keep").

That said, I would like to put on the table some tropes that slipped through the cracks (all the way back to mid-2016).

To use a dead meme... So Yeah, that's a lot of tropes and I think a crowner can help us (and the lurkers) keep track of which to cut and which to discuss.

If we do start a crowner, I suggest taking five or six of the tropes in this list, and then adding new tropes that come into the thread as appropriate. We'd eventually cut down this list until there's nothing left.

[witty saying]
WaterBlap Blapper of Water Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
Apr 10th 2017 at 4:40:51 PM

I think Sadly Mythcharacterized should be put back on the table because of this new part of the discussion on the TRS thread for Everybody Hates Ares.

There are kinks that should have been taken out and revised before launch. I was already against the name because it makes it sound like the trope is expressly about wrong personality traits (i.e. characterization) rather than over-simplifying the portrayal of a mythical figure. But if there's still work to be done on the example section and commented out information in the description...

Pinging ~MorningStar1337 because they did so much work on this draft (and already brought it up in this thread).

[witty saying]
MorningStar1337 Does this look like the face of Mercy? from 🤔
Does this look like the face of Mercy?
Apr 10th 2017 at 5:10:51 PM

Regarding the name, I started a crowner about that a week before the premature launch, but it was called in favor of that title (Granted it was only 2 votes, but when every other option was in the negatives).

Regarding Touhou. I'll remove those examples. But if we find more Square pegs then there is evidence that unlanch (and perhaps a change in sponsor) is needed.

"We're TV Tropes. We don't need bots to ruin people's lives.". -nightwyrm_zero
Karxrida Rokket Lawnchair from Darkness within Darkness Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
Rokket Lawnchair
Apr 10th 2017 at 5:17:13 PM

Sadly Mythcharacterized is also a snowclone of Sadly Mythtaken that's actively misleading. I agree it needs a different name.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
MorningStar1337 Does this look like the face of Mercy? from 🤔
Does this look like the face of Mercy?
Apr 10th 2017 at 5:31:01 PM

I think the problem was on my end, I had this one idea that was tangentially related to to the other drafts I made to fix the Ares problem, but it drifted away from cases where the characters were different in appearance and personality (and arguably role) to cases where its either/or. The SMT, Golden Sun and most of the FF examples were examples of this (because outside of a few cases they had no character traits to speak of, all I had to go with was their appearances. It got to the point where I was asking if Persona examples count, again based on appearances). The lines were so blurry that I couldn't tell which is which.

Because I failed to properly understand my own draft, I failed to explain it as a result. As a result I'm not sure if the description was any good, or if it turned out to just be Sadly Mythtaken but only applied to characters.

I support the notion that Sadly Mythcharacterized be unlaunched, so that I can try to figure out the examples and name. If that's done, I'll remove the crosswicks.

edited 10th Apr '17 6:07:29 PM by MorningStar1337

"We're TV Tropes. We don't need bots to ruin people's lives.". -nightwyrm_zero
Apr 12th 2017 at 9:34:01 PM

It looks like yingandyan is having trouble making page so far they have made Yingandyan and Ying_ which are identical but poorly formatted

edited 12th Apr '17 9:34:57 PM by jormis29


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