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Do you have trouble remembering the difference between Deathbringer the Adorable and Fluffy the Terrible?

Do you have trouble recognizing when you've written a Zero-Context Example?

Not sure if you really have a Badass Bookworm or just a guy who likes to read?

Well, this is the thread for you. We're here to help you will all the finer points of example writing. If you have any questions, we can answer them. Don't be afraid. We don't bite. We all just want to make the wiki a better place for everyone.


Useful Tips:

  • Make sure that the example makes sense to both people who don't know the work AND don't know the trope.
    • Wrong: The Mentor: Kevin is this to Bob in the first episode.
    • Right: The Mentor: Kevin takes Bob under his wing in the first episode and teaches him the ropes of being a were-chinchilla.
  • Never just put the trope title and leave it at that.
    • Wrong: Badass Adorable
    • Right: Badass Adorable: Xavier, the group's cute little mascot, defeats three raging elephants with both hands tied behind his back using only an uncooked spaghetti noodle.
  • When is normally far less important than How.
    • Wrong: Big Bad: Of the first season.
    • Right: Big Bad: The heroes have to defeat the Mushroom Man lest the entirety of Candy Land's caramel supply be turned into fungus.
  • A character name is not an explanation.


Other Resources:


For best results, please include why you think an example is iffy in your first post.

Also, many oft-misused tropes/topics have their own threads, such as Surprisingly Realistic Outcome (here) and Fan-Preferred Couple (here). Tropers are better able to give feedback on examples you bring up to specific threads. We don't discuss Complete Monster or Magnificent Bastard examples; please don't bring them up.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Jul 17th 2025 at 8:59:01 PM

SoyValdo7 I mainly fix indentation issues from La tierra de lagos y volcanes Since: Sep, 2022 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
I mainly fix indentation issues
#23526: Nov 6th 2022 at 7:59:11 AM

[up]I guess you can argue that Luz comes from another world and promote an idea (wild magic) who go against the establishments. But that also something that can be said about dozen of others anime protagonists who doesn't fit the Messianic trope.

Edited by SoyValdo7 on Nov 6th 2022 at 10:00:13 AM

Valdo
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#23527: Nov 6th 2022 at 8:01:57 AM

[up][up] That feels like a shoehorn to me, too

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#23528: Nov 6th 2022 at 8:15:42 AM

From Trivia.Mystery Science Theater 3000:

  • Channel Hop:
    • From one KTMA season to two on the Comedy Channel. The latter channel merged with Ha! to become CTV: The Comedy Network note  but due to a naming conflict with the Canadian channel CTV, it was renamed to Comedy Central, and MST3K made the transition — staying for Seasons 3-7. Afterwards, Sci-Fi picked the series up for three more seasons.
    • Also with their DVD releases. At first, they were handled by Rhino Records' home video division, then they switched to Rhino's Spiritual Successor Shout! Factory, who eventually bought the show.
    • They've channel hopped again, with the season 11 revival airing as a Netflix Original. This is even worked into the plot as Kinga has to be constantly reminded that unlike previous seasons, they're on Netflix, which doesn't use traditional ratings, and thus her plan to make the show a ratings giant and sell to Disney cannot work as conceived.
    • From Season 13 onwards, the show has moved from Netflix and is now broadcast on its own website entitled The Gizmoplex.

Are these valid examples?

Edited by gjjones on Nov 6th 2022 at 11:28:40 AM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
Eievie Since: Feb, 2014
#23529: Nov 6th 2022 at 11:56:47 AM

~Synchronicity ~laserviking42 ~Rhapsody

Following up on the prior discussion of Mal Mariée in House of the Dragon in Alicent and Viserys. I argue that it is present, but as a Subverted Trope, not played straight.

The 3 criteria as mentioned are:

(1) a younger woman unhappily married to an older man
(2) said older man is jealous and possessive
(3) she cheats on him

#1 is clearly present. I think #3 is alluded to but subverted in the Ship Tease with Criston, although this seems to be the contested point. #2 is absent, but Tropes Are Flexible so I don't think that's automatically a deal breaker, especially in a subverted case.

If you disagree that it's a subverted trope in this story, then I'd ask: What do you think a subverted case of Mal Mariée would look like, if not this?

Edited by Eievie on Nov 6th 2022 at 12:21:45 PM

AnoneMouseJr Since: Nov, 2010
#23530: Nov 6th 2022 at 12:10:52 PM

Channel Hop looks correct, but could use some cleanup... how's this?:

  • Channel Hop: Repeatedly.
    • The series originally aired on KTMA for the first season, then moved to the Comedy Channel for season 2. The latter channel then merged with Ha! to become CTV: The Comedy Network. Due to a naming conflict with the Canadian channel CTV, it was renamed to Comedy Central, with MST3K airing the first episode of its third season on the same day the name change took effect. It stayed there until the end of season 7, after which the Sci-Fi Channel picked it up for seasons 8-10, ending in fall 1999. A Kickstarter campaign eventually led to Netflix picking up the series for seasons 11 and 12, airing in 2017 and 2018. A second successful crowdfunding effort then allowed the series to relaunch in 2022, with its thirteenth season (along with older episodes) being released through Joel Hodgeson's newly-launched site The Gizmoplex.
    • The DVD releases did this too. They were originally released through Rhino Records' home video division from 2000 to 2007, after which the license was transferred to Rhino's Spiritual Successor Shout! Factory from 2008 on.

Until next time...

Anon e Mouse Jr.

If you're responding directly to one of my posts, please ping me to make sure I see it.
RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#23531: Nov 6th 2022 at 12:11:29 PM

[up][up][up]I don't think the second one counts since Channel Hop doesn't seem to involve DVD releases. I feel those examples are otherwise valid, though.

~Mae Bea and re: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13543987200A54420100&page=941#comment-23524. To my knowledge, yes, this thread can cover video examples. Also, do you have a particular example in mind or were you just curious?

AnoneMouseJr Since: Nov, 2010
#23532: Nov 6th 2022 at 12:20:23 PM

[up]I don't think the second one counts since Channel Hop doesn't seem to involve DVD releases. I feel those examples are otherwise valid, though.

There's a boatload of DVD releases mentioned on the "Film" sub-page of Channel Hop, at the very least.

In the meantime, I've updated the main entry with my version (as seen above), and included (but commented out until the question of whether or not to include it is resolved) the updated DVD paragraph for now.

Until next time...

Anon e Mouse Jr.

If you're responding directly to one of my posts, please ping me to make sure I see it.
SoyValdo7 I mainly fix indentation issues from La tierra de lagos y volcanes Since: Sep, 2022 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
I mainly fix indentation issues
#23533: Nov 6th 2022 at 12:22:19 PM

[up][up][up] Eievie

The thing is, there are already other tropes who deal with marital problems. Try to subvert Mal Mariée sounds redundant.

Valdo
RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#23534: Nov 6th 2022 at 12:39:24 PM

[up][up]Thanks, however, I'm assuming those are misuse since the main page (not counting the examples) just mentions channels/networks and not DVDs.

laserviking42 from End-World Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#23535: Nov 6th 2022 at 1:03:37 PM

[up]x6 Re: Mal Mariée

To begin with, that was roughly eight pages ago, so not providing a link to the original query, or even a proposed example that you want to add is rather inconvenient.

In order to subvert a trope, one needs to set it up as normal, but the payoff is completely opposite. Mal Mariée (it literally means badly married) is the story trope where an older man (usually very rich or noble, but that's not a requirement) marries a much younger woman and it results in a very unhappy marriage (mostly for the woman). The marriage is either arranged by the parents, or perhaps the woman is forced into it through societal expectations.

When played straight:

  • Setup - Old man and younger woman marry
  • Payoff - Unhappy marriage

When subverted:

  • Setup - Old man and younger woman marry
  • Payoff - Happy marriage

Do keep in mind, the marriage has to be arranged or forced (this is a crucial part of the setup), a marriage with an age gap is just May–December Romance.

See Not a Subversion.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
StewieGriffin34 from Sea ice (Season 2) Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
#23536: Nov 6th 2022 at 1:12:20 PM

I first added this to DevelopmentHell.Animated Films, but then wondered if I should trim it down and put it on Unproduced Scripts instead. However, because the script doesn't have a work page, I don't know where to put it.

In April 2020, The Secret Life of Pets writer Brian Lynch has leaked on Twitter a script from 1999 for a Live-Action/CGI Hybrid Looney Tunes movie called Varsity Bugs, described as Billy Madison with Looney Tunes. The plot involved a studio executive who takes over the Warner Bros. Studio who wants to kick out the Looney Tunes and introduce his own group of cooler, hipper CGI characters. He does so by finding a clause in a contract that anyone with at least a high school diploma can work there; seeing that Bugs and company don't have any so there forced to go to an all-human live-action school.

He/they | Mostly here on my free days
laserviking42 from End-World Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#23537: Nov 6th 2022 at 1:15:47 PM

I think that's Unproduced Scripts, Development Hell would mean it was picked up by a studio, then languished in various stages of development for an eternity or two.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
StewieGriffin34 from Sea ice (Season 2) Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
#23538: Nov 6th 2022 at 1:20:41 PM

Okay. Thank you! I figured that was the case, I just wasn't sure because it had no page of its own.

He/they | Mostly here on my free days
Eievie Since: Feb, 2014
#23539: Nov 6th 2022 at 1:29:57 PM

[up][up][up][up] I think the Mal Mariée scenario is set up in House of the Dragon. You've got an unhappy union between a much older husband and much younger wife, and a young man who could be the wife's lover. It's got everything but the actual event itself (the adultery and jealousy it would elicit).

I think your scenarios are overly-vague, and what I'm talking about is more specific:

  • Played straight:
    • Setup - Unhappy marriage between old man and younger woman
    • Classic outcome - Wife cheats with young man
  • Subverted:
    • Setup - Unhappy marriage between old man and younger woman, plus there's a young man on hand having Ship Tease with the wife
    • Unexpected outcome - Wife remains faithful

Edited by Eievie on Nov 6th 2022 at 1:35:57 AM

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#23540: Nov 6th 2022 at 1:39:58 PM

[up]I see your point, however, I still feel a subversion would need to meet the requirement about the husband being possessive.

Also, I was part of the discussion too. (I'm noting this because you didn't mention me in your previous post when you added hollers.) EDIT: I'm just mentioning this in case you didn't notice.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Nov 6th 2022 at 1:40:27 AM

SoyValdo7 I mainly fix indentation issues from La tierra de lagos y volcanes Since: Sep, 2022 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
I mainly fix indentation issues
#23541: Nov 6th 2022 at 1:45:11 PM

[up][up] It also sounds very much like Unwanted Spouse. Some trope just don't need to be subverted because there already a trope who deal with that topic.

The only way of subverted the trope who I can think is by Lampshaded it In-Universe, make all the cast expects it to happen... and them nothing happen.

Edited by SoyValdo7 on Nov 6th 2022 at 4:00:32 AM

Valdo
Eievie Since: Feb, 2014
#23542: Nov 6th 2022 at 2:01:36 PM

I agree it is Unwanted Spouse. But given the details—the age gap; the allusions to adultery; that it's a medieval setting that intentionally uses some medieval tropes—I think it's the Mal Mariée subtrope specifically.

Edited by Eievie on Nov 6th 2022 at 2:14:39 AM

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#23543: Nov 6th 2022 at 2:33:21 PM

[up]It still doesn't meet the requirement about the husband being jealous. I get that Administrivia.Tropes Are Flexible, however, the main page suggests it's a basic requirement.

SoyValdo7 I mainly fix indentation issues from La tierra de lagos y volcanes Since: Sep, 2022 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
I mainly fix indentation issues
#23544: Nov 6th 2022 at 2:45:14 PM

From the YMMV of Chicago:

  • Values Dissonance: This is actually the reason why Maurine Dallas Watkins didn't want to sell the play as a musical; as a born-again Christian, she wrote her Chicago as a morbid 1920s satire of the legal system and atonement for her part in getting two murderesses acquitted as a tabloid journalist. Watkins felt that turning Chicago into a musical vaudeville would cheapen the meaning and glorify said murderesses. To honor the original message, Ben Fosse and Gwen Verdon used the vaudeville acts and flippant costumes to reinforce that murder is never okay, and justice doesn't always prevail.

This argument can still be used today. The example points the great concern of the producer to make a faithful adaptation with the correct author message. NOT that the said message age poorly.

Valdo
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#23545: Nov 6th 2022 at 2:47:03 PM

Yeah, that's not VD. It's not VR either since "murder bad" isn't a value anyone was ever contesting.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Eievie Since: Feb, 2014
#23546: Nov 6th 2022 at 2:48:09 PM

[up][up] Since the whole thing of subversion is that it alludes to a trope without actually doing the trope, that seems ok to me?

Or maybe it's playing with the trope in a different way? Maybe it's more of an Inverted Trope? Structurally the elements are all there, but from a character perspective everyone's sort of inverted from the classic role? The husband is too passive and conflict avoidant to be jealous; the wife is too dutiful to cheat; the lover is someone else's burned ex and not so eager for a repeat.

I very much think that this is an intentional allusion to the trope, but it's definitely coming at it from a weird angle. That doesn't give me pause because I think, "Yeah, of course—taking medieval tropes and then playing with them in nonstandard ways is what ASOIAF is all about." But I get how to someone else that could come across like Square Peg Round Trope

Edited by Eievie on Nov 6th 2022 at 3:25:50 AM

SoyValdo7 I mainly fix indentation issues from La tierra de lagos y volcanes Since: Sep, 2022 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
I mainly fix indentation issues
#23547: Nov 6th 2022 at 3:17:59 PM

From the trivia of Uncanny X Men 2018:

  • I Knew It!: The status quo of mutants being forgotten by the world being removed. Given that mutants are an allegory for many oppressed minorities, the idea of them willingly erasing their existence from the world's memories just wouldn't fly. Plus, with Hickman coming on, some thought it could be the status quo for his run, but Hickman has always set up his own status quos and the run is much hyped and was unlikely to begin with a note to read another series to understand the setting.

I highly doubt that anybody familiar with marvel comic (and comic in general) would believe that they would keep the mutants, one their greatest IP, in the fridge for a long time. It's not a very hard theory to subscribe.

Valdo
laserviking42 from End-World Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
#23548: Nov 6th 2022 at 4:53:08 PM

[up][up]The "whole thing" about a subversion is that the narrative will set you up to believe a trope is coming, then dash those expectations by having it not occur (mostly for comedy).

If it was just me saying it's not an example, then I'd prob be okay with you going for it. But multiple people have said that it's not an example, and you're still trying to say that it is. Personally, I would drop the stick and move on.


[up]Yeah, not an example. The idea that Marvel would simply sit on one of their most famous IPs (X-Men were a valuable property long before the MCU was a thing) in this superhero obsessed age is quite ludicrous.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Eievie Since: Feb, 2014
#23549: Nov 6th 2022 at 5:29:20 PM

I do think it was set up to seem like it might happen. It wasn't flagged with every single possible marker (the jealousy wasn't there), but it was flagged with several markers.

BigBadShadow25 With my last breath, I curse Zoidberg. from Basement at the Alamo (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Desperate
With my last breath, I curse Zoidberg.
#23550: Nov 6th 2022 at 5:56:08 PM

So for Film.Enola Holmes 2, Mira Troy turning out to be Moriarty… Sequel Adaptation Iconic Villain for the Sherlock Holmes franchise as a whole?

You’re Gonna Carry That Weight.

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