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Edit war aside, my own bar for an in hindsight trope is a more direct connection than 'this thing happened, then this other thing happened'.
I want to erase it again because it has nothing to do with MGS, but I need confirmation.
It's misuse, cut it.
Oh, it was moved to Hilarious in Hindsight.
My bad, I didn't see it very well. I still don't know if it should go there, but alright.
It's not anything in hindsight. It's two things that happened in different roles in different franchises with no apparent connection between them. Cut it, burn it, load ashes into rocket, fire rocket into the sun.
Edited by HighCrate on Dec 4th 2019 at 12:07:09 PM
SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic:
But from Said Episode:
Can it count as Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped if it's not the anvil the work is dropping? And if not, how is Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped supposed to be different from reiterating An Aesop with gushing?
I also asked Some Anvils Need To Be Dropped cleanup (which is inactive as of this post) and ATT (this seems like a common enough issue to warrant a larger consensus).
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Dec 4th 2019 at 12:10:58 PM
This TRS thread discussed the matter extensively and did not arrive at a meaningful distinction between Anvilicious and SANTBD other than "the latter has more gushing."
I'm of the opinion that SANTBD is Not a Trope and should be cut (or shunted off to Sugar Wiki if people really want the opportunity to gush about Aesops that they like).
Edited by HighCrate on Dec 4th 2019 at 12:28:28 PM
From YMMV.Diary Of A Wimpy Kid:
The first example might be valid, but I find the second and third pretty questionable. The rant about climate change comes from Greg, who isn't particularly smart. (Also, it's been a while since I read the book, but I don't remember climate change being an important part of it.) As for the third example, I don't think having a few gags about Phoneaholic Teenagers is enough to make the message Anvilicious.
I'm uncomfortable with this example from My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic S7 E14 "Fame and Misfortune":
Besides trying to sneak in some complaint, I'm not sure it fits with Clueless Aesop, which is for short "the show can't handle the message it tries to transmit". Maybe it could fit in a different trope...
Y'all remember we have an Aesop Cleanup thread, right?
Edited by WarJay77 on Dec 4th 2019 at 4:19:07 AM
I did not, in fact, remember that. Thank you for the courtesy link!
I added that. It seemed the best trope to fit the issues fans took with it as it's not broken, but the real-life thing it's meant to represent lost the intended applicability when translated into the fictional scenario. My impression is that Clueless Aesop isn't just something the work inherently can't do, but failed to do so (works can surprise with how well they handle an Aesop). Is there a more fitting trope and/or less complainy way to put it?
What takes precedence? If a Secret Secret-Keeper reveals his knowledge to the people he has the secrets on, should we change his tropes to Secret Keeper? Or does the fact he originally was a Secret Secret-Keeper mean we should leave it there unchanged?
Would this example I'd like to add to Original Position Fallacy qualify as Real Life or something else altogether?
I do have to ask first, though: Would this example be considered an example of Original Position Fallacy or The Golden Rule?
I would say keep it there, since they were a Secret Secret-Keeper, but specify they did eventually come out with what they knew.
That sounds like a violation of Examples Are Not General, TBH.
The problem is, I see a lot of similar examples on Original Position Fallacy. Should the general examples be removed from that?
Yeah, probably. If they don't refer to a specific work (or event, for Real Life examples), they should go.
@isoycrazy: Have both the tropes listed, if both of them apply at different points in the story.
To use an example, if a character has Character Development, the tropes that applied to them prior to that would still be listed — they wouldn't be taken down just because they longer apply in the "present".
BrokenAesop.Anime And Manga:
Besides Card Carrying Villains misuse (Asshole Victim fits better), this only applies to Season 1. Season 2 shows this, satisfying as it was, came at a price that hurt them in the long run. Is it a Broken Aesop if it was something planned all along?
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Dec 5th 2019 at 8:38:36 AM
That reminds me: back in April, ~DRCEQ removed the following from Ultimate Evil:
With the edit reason "Not an example, especially how White Diamond was given more and more focus and screentime in the season finale." There was some discussion on the IP thread, but I never got a satisfactory answer.
Genji Tsuushin Agedama has weird examples on Values Dissonance that are hard to make sense of. I don't think they're examples but wanted to take them here to be safe.
"* Values Dissonance: Rei and her grandfather are a lot harder to forgive to an adult viewing this in 2019 than to a kid viewing it in the 90s. This is significant, since this story has a Karma Houdini ending and must toe the line between making them Effective Villains and not letting them cross the Moral Event Horizon to keep the ending widely acceptable.
From Lying Creator:
Is it really an example at all if Del Toro didn't actually work on the game, only giving a legal waiver for a character to be designed like him?
Looks like misuse to me.
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How well does it match the trope?