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Do you have trouble recognizing when you've written a Zero-Context Example?

Not sure if you really have a Badass Bookworm or just a guy who likes to read?

Well, this is the thread for you. We're here to help you will all the finer points of example writing. If you have any questions, we can answer them. Don't be afraid. We don't bite. We all just want to make the wiki a better place for everyone.


Useful Tips:

  • Make sure that the example makes sense to both people who don't know the work AND don't know the trope.
    • Wrong: The Mentor: Kevin is this to Bob in the first episode.
    • Right: The Mentor: Kevin takes Bob under his wing in the first episode and teaches him the ropes of being a were-chinchilla.
  • Never just put the trope title and leave it at that.
    • Wrong: Badass Adorable
    • Right: Badass Adorable: Xavier, the group's cute little mascot, defeats three raging elephants with both hands tied behind his back using only an uncooked spaghetti noodle.
  • When is normally far less important than How.
    • Wrong: Big Bad: Of the first season.
    • Right: Big Bad: The heroes have to defeat the Mushroom Man lest the entirety of Candy Land's caramel supply be turned into fungus.
  • A character name is not an explanation.


Other Resources:


For best results, please include why you think an example is iffy in your first post.

Also, many oft-misused tropes/topics have their own threads, such as Surprisingly Realistic Outcome (here) and Fan-Preferred Couple (here). Tropers are better able to give feedback on examples you bring up to specific threads.

For cleaning up examples of Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard, you must use their dedicated threads: Complete Monster Cleanup, Magnificent Bastard Cleanup.

Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 18th 2023 at 11:42:55 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from some frozen wasteland (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#9851: Sep 8th 2019 at 9:17:33 AM

~XFllo, it is the principal's personal stash of skittles, as far as I can tell, but I don't think Clapton intended it as a power play, although I think that may only downplay the trope, as Clapton is still showing casual disregard for authority.

Which example was yours?

Rawr.
Pichu-kun ... Since: Jan, 2001
...
#9852: Sep 8th 2019 at 9:20:35 AM

From YMMV.Mario Kart 64:

I'm doubting that "many people" think 64 is worse than the original.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#9853: Sep 8th 2019 at 10:05:25 AM

Someone has changed the following example from Disinherited Child to Passed-Over Inheritance based on the edit reason that Disinherited Child states that it only applies to one child; if applies to more than one child it's Passed-Over Inheritance.

The example is technically two examples rolled into one, but the one (Winter's disinheritance) is effectively back-story to explain why Weiss (one of the main characters, and the second-oldest child in her family) starts the show as the company's heiress when she's not the oldest child: Jacques made his eldest daughter the heir to the company. She took a career path he disapproved of, so he disinherited her and made his second child his heir. She's followed in her older sister's rebellious footsteps, so he's disinherited her and made his youngest child (and only son) the heir. So, he has disinherited two children, but the inheritance concerned (control over the family's company) has only ever applied to one child at a time, and has only ever moved to the next child when the current heir has done something to piss Jacques off enough to disinherit them.

Meanwhile, Passed-Over Inheritance is about multiple members of a family who only find out during the reading of a will that they're not going to inherit something they thought (until that reveal) that they were in line to inherit. This trope does not apply to the situation being troped below: each child was informed of their disinheritance when it happened and who was the replacement heir, their father is still very much alive and in control of the company, so there is no will reading involved, and there is no 'wait, why wasn't I given an inheritance?' situation involved because all relevant members of the family are completely aware of their situations.

It seems to me that the Disinherited Child trope is being locked into a limitation that shouldn't necessarily apply (it can only ever happen to a single child) and that it's misusing the Passed-Over Inheritance trope by misrepresenting it as the multi-child version of the Disinherited Child trope, when it's actually a trope describing a completely different scenario ('you were never a candidate for inheritance you thought you were entitled to and you learn this only when the inheritance is being handed out' versus 'you have been disinherited from the inheritance you were otherwise certain to receive').

So: should the below be Disinherited Child or Passed-Over Inheritance, and does Disinherited Child need to go to the Trope Description Clean-up thread?

  • Passed-Over Inheritance (formerly Disinherited Child): Weiss and Winter are disinherited by their abusive and corrupt father Jacques Schnee. Winter's disinheritance is implied to be her decision to escape his control by joining the Atlesian military, a decision he blames on her superior, General Ironwood. In Volume 4, Weiss gets disinherited for her insolence once she inadvertently summons a boarbatusk to cause chaos at the charity benefit and later blasts Jacques for marrying into the family name. With Whitley becoming the sole heir to his father's company, Weiss decides to bail from Atlas in search of Winter. Although she's unable to find her sister, Weiss reunite with her fellow team-mates and stays with them for good.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 8th 2019 at 6:21:53 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#9854: Sep 8th 2019 at 2:36:30 PM

After reflecting on the descriptions of the trope names, I thought of reclassifying the trope example under Passed-Over Inheritance, given the fact that Disinherited Child applies to only one person per the latter's description as it currently stands.

You know, I’m also starting to wonder if the trope description should be looked at...

Edited by gjjones on Sep 8th 2019 at 5:56:48 AM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#9855: Sep 8th 2019 at 2:58:38 PM

It's weird that Disinherited Child is specifically for one person, given the page quote is about disinheriting two children.

WarJay77 Bonnie's Artistic Cousin from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
#9856: Sep 8th 2019 at 3:04:55 PM

Yeah, at least one of those tropes is being misused.

Current Project: The Team
HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
#9857: Sep 8th 2019 at 3:05:37 PM

[up][up][up][up] MK 64 is one of those weird instances where it wasn't a particularly contested sequel at the time it came out, but it's been the subject of some reappraisal since then. Like a lot of games from the first generation of 3D consoles, it's aged like moldy bread, and everything new that it did has been done better in later iterations taking advantage of more advanced hardware.

Edited by HighCrate on Sep 8th 2019 at 3:07:26 AM

Pichu-kun ... Since: Jan, 2001
...
#9858: Sep 8th 2019 at 3:57:48 PM

A cartoon uses Hide Your Lesbians in one episode and then several years later doesn't. Is it still an example? A subversion?

[up] I've never heard of that. MK 64 always gets pinned within the top 3 games in the series, while SNES is often passed over. Maybe views have changed in the last five years.

HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
#9859: Sep 8th 2019 at 4:01:11 PM

It's probably still a stretch to call it "contested." It's not like it was a badly-made game by the standards of the time, just hamstrung by hardware that couldn't quite handle what the developers wanted it to do.

It's ROUGH trying to go back to it, though, while the SNES original still plays well and looks good for what it is.

WhirlRX Since: Jan, 2015
#9860: Sep 8th 2019 at 4:39:38 PM

[up][up]I say its still an example early in the series before they no longer do it.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#9861: Sep 8th 2019 at 4:44:08 PM

Thanks for the feedback.

I'll take the Disinherited Child and Passed-Over Inheritance situation to the trope description clean-up thread, and see if we can get the description sorted out.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 8th 2019 at 12:57:06 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#9862: Sep 8th 2019 at 4:48:01 PM

[up]Depending on how that goes, you might look into the Disinherited Child quote, too.

Asherinka Since: Jan, 2018
#9863: Sep 9th 2019 at 12:32:24 AM

[up][up][up][up][up] I'd say it is still an example early on.

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#9864: Sep 9th 2019 at 6:47:53 AM

I found this on Quotes.Replacement Goldfish and I don't think it fits the trope:

If I die, I can be replaced.
Ayanami Rei on several occasions, Neon Genesis Evangelion

This one, too:

Kerchak: Kala, it will not replace the one we lost.
Kala: I know, but... he needs me.
Tarzan

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Sep 9th 2019 at 9:49:25 AM

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
Darkaros Since: Jul, 2009
#9865: Sep 9th 2019 at 8:17:07 AM

[up] Tarzan needs way more context, it doesn't even clarify that she's talking about her son vs Tarzan. By itself it's meaningless and you'd need to read the actual trope page, where the Tarzan example is listed, to understand what's going on. I'd remove it.

Rei example I can see fitting without context (...but "several occasions" is so vague and uninformative, and replacing her by herself is a bit odd without at least a Cloning Blues pothole) that I also see how it doesn't explain anything. The ReplacementGoldfish.Anime And Manga description for Rei makes it work, but not the quote by itself right now.

There's enough way better quotes that I think it's fine to remove it if it's not 100% clear to everyone, at least 'till it gets context (I think NGE has one of the best examples of the trope in Anime because of how much it affects the characters, but this quote may just be too weak by itself).

Edited by Darkaros on Sep 9th 2019 at 10:22:03 AM

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#9866: Sep 9th 2019 at 9:05:55 AM

Got it. I'll remove them in a bit. I also planned on adding this to that page, but now I'm not sure if it has enough context:

Yes, we know that you're not her
But you were hers
You know what it meant to love her
And you remind us so much of her!
"Let Us Adore You", Steven Universe: The Movie

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Sep 9th 2019 at 12:10:21 PM

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
Merseyuser1 Since: Sep, 2011
#9867: Sep 9th 2019 at 11:45:43 AM

I updated this entry on WebcomicTime.Webcomics for Webcomic.El Goonish Shive, just need to make sure the math is correct (or should this be in trivia) (highlighted in bold text):

  • Even Dan seems to be getting slightly freaked out about it - although we've FINALLY moved on a couple of days (quite rapidly too), both the comic for 18th Aug 2010 and its commentary are part hanging a stadium-size lampshade, part flat out pointing out the time-warp. A scene took place noted as "Last October" (vs the then current in-strip date of "April 7th")... which apparently PRE-DATES — quite significantly — the comic's first storyline... published more than 8 1/2 years earlier. That's a ratio of about 15:1 on AVERAGE...
    • The math is basically: 450 days in-comic (15 months) is equivalent to 15 months of Real Time, as 450/30 equals 15, so 15 months / 1 day.
    • And 15:1 is still pretty tame compared to some more extreme examples below.

Edited by Merseyuser1 on Sep 9th 2019 at 7:46:37 PM

rjd1922 he/him | Image Pickin' regular from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
he/him | Image Pickin' regular
#9868: Sep 9th 2019 at 3:35:52 PM

Darkaros: Quote pages don't need context; explaining the quotes would defeat the point.

Keet cleanup
Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#9869: Sep 10th 2019 at 3:25:50 PM

DethroningMoment.Comic Books

  • biznizz: Garth Ennis' The Pro. Already a horrible book, the absolute moment that made the book irredemable is when the titular character (Read: a single unwed mother who is a hooker with superpowers) blames thinly veiled expies of the Justice League for not helping make life better. As in "Why do I have to suck cocks to feed my son. You should have done something!" In that moment of stupidity (the reader is supposed to side with the stupid hooker here) that says "Personal responsibility? What's that?!", it implies that superheroes are supposed to improve civilization, even if other, more better stories show that that can lead to a slippery slope of power hungry tyranny. I put that book down, walked away and never read anything written by Garth Ennis again. It also has made me dislike Amanda Conner's work... somehow, and ain't that an achievement.
    • Murdock 129: This is a recurring problem in Garth Ennis works, not just The Pro, where he'll completely derail whatever story he's building up to create some kind of obnoxious Author Filibuster about how traditional Superheroes are bad, often marching squarely into Insane Troll Logic territory like this. There's plenty of ways to do a non-traditional superhero work, or even a deconstruction without having to resort to lazy Take That! moments. This is made worse by his penchant for making lazy strawmen versions of traditional heroes without real nuance or legitimate criticism beyond effectively shouting that 'Superheroes are bad', this especially comes up in comics like The Pro or The Boys, which act like they're revolutionary when in reality their entire gimmick of having evil and/or immoral superheroes has been a staple of mainstream comics for decades before either came out, and has been done infinitely better and with more nuance and thought by both DC and Marvel dozens of times.

Does Murdock 129's entry seems like it might violate the single moment only rule. It looks like they're adding to the above moment but I'm fuzzy if it's considering the multiple other works of the author moments.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Sep 10th 2019 at 3:27:04 AM

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#9870: Sep 10th 2019 at 3:34:55 PM

[up][up] True, but these quotes are so barren that I can't actually garner the trope from them. The Rei quote honestly seems more fit for the trope the quote is potholed to, Cloning Blues.

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Sep 10th 2019 at 6:37:18 AM

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
Malady (Not-So-Newbie)
#9871: Sep 10th 2019 at 6:50:54 PM

Not sure how this even relates. Delete?

Film.Double Indemnity:

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
wingedcatgirl I'm helping! from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
I'm helping!
#9872: Sep 10th 2019 at 6:56:14 PM

I guess "the one pure character" is meant to be by contrast to the other evil characters, but that's not actually part of the trope, and if you remove that bit, there's nothing left.

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
wingedcatgirl I'm helping! from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
I'm helping!
#9873: Sep 10th 2019 at 9:43:10 PM

Also:

Is it still an Orwellian Retcon if the thing that was changed is just a chapter title? Those don't really have much to do with continuity, but...?

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
DragonRanger (Troper Knight)
#9874: Sep 10th 2019 at 10:53:58 PM

From Characters.Kamen Rider Zero One:

  • Grew Beyond Their Programming: For reasons not yet clear, this is a requirement for a HumaGear to be a candidate for a Zetsume Riser, as MetsubouJinrai.NET seeks to collect their evolved data. It's an especially odd requirement given the Riser overwrites their existing personality.

For context, the Monsters of the Week are civilian-use androids ("HumaGear") hacked to be killing machines ("Magia"). "MetsubouJinrai.NET" are the ones doing the hacking, and "Zetsume Risers" are what they use to do it. (Wow, writing that all out; there's a lot of jargon in that sentence.)

The example seems to have been added because two of the three Magia so far have been shown experiencing job satisfaction right before their reprogramming. I already commented it out once because I questioned its validity; as the third had no such scene showing that. It was un-commented with the explanation that the third one was smiling before the hackers arrived to corrupt it. While true, it still strikes me as Speculative Troping; the show itself has so far drawn no connection between showing emotions and being a hacking target. It seems to be more just a way to make the robot's Loss of Identity more tragic. But I can't act against the example again without starting an edit war.

Pichu-kun ... Since: Jan, 2001
...
#9875: Sep 11th 2019 at 6:52:55 AM

From VideoGame.Pokemon Masters:

How do we know it's not a coincidence? The games don't normally, if ever. reference adaptations besides the anime.

Edited by Pichu-kun on Sep 11th 2019 at 8:55:28 AM


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