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For best results, please include why you think an example is iffy in your first post.

Also, many oft-misused tropes/topics have their own threads, such as Surprisingly Realistic Outcome (here) and Fan-Preferred Couple (here). Tropers are better able to give feedback on examples you bring up to specific threads. We don't discuss Complete Monster or Magnificent Bastard examples; please don't bring them up.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Jul 17th 2025 at 8:59:01 PM

m8e from Sweden Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
#876: Oct 7th 2014 at 10:20:23 AM

I'm leaning to Asskicking Equals Authority. They where kicking ass before they got any Authority, and at least in part got their Authority due to their asskicking. (ie kicking ass in movies => becoming a famous actor => getting more votes.)

Oops, copy/paste fail.

edited 7th Oct '14 12:12:34 PM by m8e

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#877: Oct 7th 2014 at 11:00:01 AM

Authority Equals Asskicking: I'm in charge, therefore I can kick your ass.

Asskicking Equals Authority:I can kick your ass, therefore I'm in charge.

In the case of both Ventura and Schwarzenegger, they did not get the political office by kicking anyone's ass. Nor did they suddenly get the ability to kick ass by being elected. I'd say neither trope applies to either of them.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#878: Oct 7th 2014 at 11:09:49 AM

Especially since it's about them as real people, not about their fictional portrayals. So nuke both examples.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
isoycrazy Lord of the Blue Star Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Lord of the Blue Star
#879: Oct 7th 2014 at 11:24:17 AM

Nicodemus is A big bad. Satan cannot get involved without Heaven coming down hard, so in the human realm, Nicodemus is the the big bad of that group, with Satan being the Bigger Bad in that respect. There are other factions at play that want reality gone and what not.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#880: Oct 7th 2014 at 11:50:40 AM

I don't know, it could go either way. Nicodemus is acting on behalf of a greater power, so he isn't really _the_ Satan as the trope imagines. He fits all the other criteria, though.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
m8e from Sweden Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
#881: Oct 7th 2014 at 12:13:59 PM

[up][up][up][up]Asskicking Equals Authority doesn't require ass kicking of any specific one's ass. The trope doesn't for example require that Schwarzenegger kicked Bustamante's ass, Schwarzenegger can just be kicking ass in general and then be elected for that.

edited 7th Oct '14 12:14:47 PM by m8e

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#882: Oct 7th 2014 at 12:23:52 PM

But he was not elected because he was an action-movie badass. Neither was Ventura. Did they play on the fact that they were already well-known in their campaigns? Yes. But they were not chosen simply because of that. It requires that the criteria for being mad ethe leader is physical strength: "a civilization, nation, or culture that bases its social hierarchy and governance on whosoever is strongest among them."

edited 7th Oct '14 12:28:06 PM by Madrugada

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#883: Oct 7th 2014 at 2:40:37 PM

OK, then what about fictional characters who more or less follow in Schwarzenegger's and Ventura's examples, like Mike Haggar from Final Fight, a pro wrestler turned mayor (with his pre-mayoral wrestling career depicted in Saturday Night Slam Masters, an otherwise separate trilogy from Final Fightnote ) whose solution to increasing crime rates in his city is to take to the streets and give the criminals a crash course in pro-wrestling? AFAIK he didn't ass-kick his way to the position of Mayor.

edited 7th Oct '14 2:42:37 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#884: Oct 7th 2014 at 2:51:43 PM

Then he's possibly Authority Equals Asskicking. Not everybody who is in a position of authority and can kick ass is necessarily going to fit into one of these tropes. The tropes require a causal relationship between the physical ability and the position of authority — one of them caused the other. Not simply, "they both happen to exist."

edited 7th Oct '14 2:51:59 PM by Madrugada

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#885: Oct 7th 2014 at 3:54:48 PM

The tropes also imply and require that there exists a clearly established hierarchy that directly correlates combat ability with rank. Thus, a lowly private is the weakest soldier while the general is able to defeat the entire army single-handed, and the President of their nation can beat up Superman and Darkseid before breakfast.

edited 7th Oct '14 3:57:48 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
StFan Since: Jan, 2001
#886: Oct 7th 2014 at 6:44:41 PM

No, now that's a sweet forum thread, exactly what I needed.

For Oxymoronic Being, I'm hesitating whether this is an example or not:

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#888: Oct 7th 2014 at 7:29:01 PM

I think the question is whether a fairy actually counts as "the incarnation of paganism". Traditionally, maybe, but it seems like that's something that could vary from verse to verse.

isoycrazy Lord of the Blue Star Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Lord of the Blue Star
#889: Oct 7th 2014 at 8:02:47 PM

Yeah. Quite a conundrum. While he isn't a demon, Nicodemus is very bonded with his fallen, who uses Nicodemus' shadow to attack people. If the shadow is hurt by a holy weapon then Nick feels the blow too.

But doesn't the trope just state the person isn't Satan himself and is a combination of the other criteria? So one need not apply?

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#890: Oct 8th 2014 at 8:31:29 AM

[up]x5 & [up]x6: I see. That makes a lot of sense.

On a related note, in the Mike Haggar example and on other pages, I see Our Presidents Are Different being applied to political leaders who are not top-level rulers — e.g. a city mayor in Haggar's case — though they do fulfill the rest of the trope's qualifications by falling into one or more of the broad archetypes (President Action in Haggar's case). Is this correct usage of Our Presidents Are Different? Something similar seems to have happened with Ambadassador, too, where it's being applied to political leaders rather than actual diplomats.

PS: I must note that Badass in Charge is currently an index for Asskicking Equals Authority, Authority Equals Asskicking, Our Presidents Are Different, and other tropes, and that it lacks any clear candidate that could encompass "political leader of any level who also happens to be a Badass fighter that is not above solving problems personally with his fists/weapons if the need arises" (sort of like a modern non-royal counterpart to Royals Who Actually Do Something and/or Warrior Prince).

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
lexicon Since: May, 2012
#891: Oct 8th 2014 at 9:49:19 AM

Is Love at First Sight in Frozen an example of a Exploited Trope or Deconstructed Trope? He did use it to his advantage but he didn't say anything to make him sound Genre Savvy like is needed for Deconstructed Trope. It does show the flaws like saying, "Be careful: this is what happens when you have this trope," like a Deconstructed Trope.

edited 8th Oct '14 9:49:37 AM by lexicon

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#892: Oct 8th 2014 at 10:39:34 AM

[up][up] Haggar, as a fictional example, could fall into the Asskicking Equals Authority trope if his physical prowess is what got him elected mayor above any political qualifications.

As for Our Presidents Are Different, the description is open enough to include any leader archetype; if the mayor is the most prominent leader in a story, and he is an Action Hero, then it would seem to qualify. The various subtypes listed are rather less open, though.

Still, there's no need to force a trope where it doesn't exist. We don't need Action Mayor if it's not functionally distinct from Asskicking Equals Authority plus Badass.

[up] More detail, please, for all two of us who haven't seen Frozen yet in its entirety.

edited 8th Oct '14 10:40:38 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
lexicon Since: May, 2012
#893: Oct 8th 2014 at 10:52:34 AM

Spoiler Changed from:

  • Love at First Sight: When he meets Anna she's awed by him and by the end of the night she agrees to marry him. We learn it's a deconstruction when it turns out that Hans is a villain who was faking being in love with Anna so he could marry into the throne.

To:

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#894: Oct 8th 2014 at 10:58:19 AM

Let's clarify a bit. Both Exploited Trope and Invoked Trope require that the individual doing so be aware of genre conventions. So if Hans knows that princesses always fall in love with a romantic suitor who shows up to answer her dreams, and deliberately sets himself up to accomplish that, then he's invoking the trope. If he realizes that she's falling in love with him and then decides to play that up to take advantage of her, that's Exploited Trope. Both of these require that he be Dangerously Genre-Savvy in the sense of recognizing how the Love at First Sight trope typically plays out. If his motivations are entirely encapsulated in the narrative without awareness of tropes, then those playing with variants don't apply and he's just a Manipulative Bastard.

Love at First Sight is such a staple of the genre as to be cliché. From the point of view of the narrative, the trope is subverted if the audience would normally expect Hans to be a good guy in this situation. You didn't say exactly how he tries to make her fall for him, but a rescue from some kind of peril is traditional here. If he's just the first polite, good-looking guy she meets, then usually audiences won't fall for it, especially if we know his plans ahead of time or if he gets a sinister musical cue. It's deconstructed if the narrative presents it as An Aesop for why you should not fall in love with the first guy to pay attention to you and fully explores the emotional and dramatic consequences.

edited 8th Oct '14 12:30:16 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
lexicon Since: May, 2012
#895: Oct 8th 2014 at 3:30:29 PM

It has An Aesop. The queen tells Anna that she can't marry a man she just met. Kristoff tells her that she really doesn't know anything about her fiance. As we get near the climax her beloved Prince Hans tells her that he didn't love her and just wanted to marry into the throne and it was fortunate that she was so desperate for love that she wanted to marry him just like that. He then villainous walks away from her to let her die.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#896: Oct 8th 2014 at 3:42:31 PM

It isn't really a deconstruction if the trope isn't ever played straight to begin with.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
MagBas Mag Bas from In my house Since: Jun, 2009
#897: Oct 11th 2014 at 6:35:09 AM

  • Protagonist-Centered Morality: Adam's destruction of the cloning facility is presented as a good thing, and his views on cloning and death compared to Drucker's are presented as right, simply because he's the protagonist.

This example is in The 6th Day. Is this a correct example?

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#898: Oct 11th 2014 at 6:37:44 AM

Methinks that example writeup is lacking the "morality" aspect a bit.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#899: Oct 11th 2014 at 7:14:49 AM

Protagonist-Centered Morality is when what the protagonist does is considered "good" no matter how terrible it may seem to an external observer. For example, it's okay for the protagonist to murder orc babies, but horrible when orcs murder human babies.

The example cited above doesn't contain enough information to determine if it counts.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#900: Oct 15th 2014 at 2:35:30 PM

Hi again everyone. I'm adding some wicks for Jayuzumi, a small pet project of mine that I started but didn't get around to finishing, so I'm trying to make up for that by wicking. I just have a couple of examples to run past.

The first is for Insane Troll Logic. If that doesn't fit, where else would it go?

  • Jayuzumi encounters a gamer by the name of "cider dude" during the "Bad Violin Trolling" episode, who uses this against him. Whereas the more Genre Savvy players opt to mute Jay immediately for his annoying behaviour, cider dude reasons that it would be better to leave him unmuted and file an official complaint against him, reasoning that a system so huge naturally would respond to him instantly and automatically rule in his favour. All the while, cider dude gets more annoyed and finally starts shouting at the top of his lungs, clearly outraged that his way of thinking isn't working as he hoped.

For Epic Fail, also for the same page (and copied straight from there, hence the slightly odd indentation).

  • While a lot of Jay's failures are deliberate, he has, on occasion, screwed up genuinely. An example would be in "Cleveland Brown Plays Call of Duty: Ghosts", where he successfully manages to massacre most of an enemy team... and then falls to his death by not looking where he's going.
  • Most of the players that get trapped in corners by him really aren't paying attention, and some continue to do it even after being trapped two rounds in a row.

I know it's a handful, but I'm trying to make up for earlier mistakes. Many thanks!

edited 15th Oct '14 2:38:05 PM by captainmarkle

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.

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