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May 10th 2019 at 4:57:04 PM

From YMMV.Cytus II:

  • What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids?: The game is rated E10+ containing a lot of mature subject matter that is both implied and plainly shown, including Human Trafficking (strongly implied to be for sexual purposes), people getting brutally beaten and shot, strong language (some of which, such as "dick" and "retard", being completely uncensored), and offscreen sex scenes, one of which is non-consensual and involving a minor.

Given how the game DOES have an E10+ rating, would it be a better fit for What Do You Mean, It's for Kids??

wingedcatgirl when you gotta tank but you wanna be cute from Catgirl Heaven, presumably Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
when you gotta tank but you wanna be cute
May 10th 2019 at 5:08:32 PM

If it was marketed as for kids, it's What Do You Mean, It's for Kids?. If it was marketed as an adult work, it's What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids?. The rating is irrelevant.

🐱 Name: Sylvi 🐱 Pronouns: it/they/she 🐱
gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York
May 10th 2019 at 5:11:23 PM

Reposting from the previous page:

For a potential entry on YMMV.Sakura Wars:

  • Harsher in Hindsight: The whole scene where Douglas Stewart, owned by Brent Furlong, deploys the Blanches to threaten the Paris Combat Revue (which includes Ci Caprice) in École de Paris is this if you consider that Brent's voice actor (Kōichi Yamadera) was once the real-life husband of Ci's one (Mika Kanai).

Is this a true example or a misuse?

No matter who you are, always be yourself.
May 10th 2019 at 5:16:42 PM

#8500 — It may be YMMV, but those opinions do still need to be a lot more common for them to qualify. If we documented every single opinion out there, every YMMV page would be a mile long.

The Wii U has not been Vindicated by History. If anything, I've been seeing the opposite since the Nintendo Switch was released, with people saying it's "what the Wii U should have been in the first place".

Night Vision Image Quality Cleanup
sgamer82 from Meridian, ID
May 10th 2019 at 5:21:47 PM

[up][up] If you have to ask the answer is probably "misuse".

It doesn't really explain where the harsher comes in, and really it's just "these two characters who are enemies in this show were voiced by people who were married in real life"

Plus, remember how in Eragon everyone cries "a single tear"? Yeah, just try that with One Piece and see if it works
gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York
May 10th 2019 at 5:24:36 PM

[up] Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

No matter who you are, always be yourself.
razorrozar7 I'll be pretty one day. from Oregon Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
I'll be pretty one day.
May 10th 2019 at 5:29:16 PM

Primis: fair enough; it's definitely not a hill i intend to die on.

I'm Chloe. I fix things. Only you can prevent ZCEs.
May 11th 2019 at 12:24:39 AM

I was checking out ComicBook.Ultimate Spider Man and found a huge Deconstruction listing that's "possibly even more of a deconstruction than its mainstream counterpart."

    Are these examples of Deconstruction? 

  • Peter's ended up in the hospital twice as a result of being Spider-Man. Half the time, injuries go untreated since he can't risk medics finding out his identity.
  • Some supporting characters and antagonists put two and two together to figure out his secret identity. This includes Kingpin, who effortlessly uses his information network to find out where he goes to school. He even finds out the names and identities of Daredevil, Iron Fist, and Shang Chi. And S.H.I.E.L.D. was already onto him way before then.
  • The fact that Spider-Man is a student at Peter's high school eventually brings a small media circus down on it, with newscrews camped outside almost all the time. Several principals even quit because of the stress involved.
  • Mary Jane breaks up with Peter for a while because his dangerous lifestyle as a crime-fighter becomes too overwhelming for her; She's had a firsthand look at some of the injuries he's sustained in battle, and she's constantly worried sick that he'll wind up dead someday because of it. Her first personal encounter with a super-villain leaves her with post-traumatic stress which she's not able to get help owing to Peter's double life and Peter's own superhero career not allowing him time to actually listen and counsel her. Peter and MJ actually spend a lot' of the comic breaking up and getting back together, usually because one is afraid for the safety of the other (Peter's always facing danger head-on, and there are plenty of times when MJ is put in danger by proxy). The overall effect is that Peter's life as Spider-Man puts a ton of stress on their relationship, and as two teenagers who haven't been in a serious relationship before, they don't have any reference for how to deal with it, and Peter's secret identity means they can't even really talk to anyone about it, much less a qualified therapist.
  • Kingpin pulls a Karma Houdini multiple times just by pulling a few strings. As it turns out, bringing down a mob requires a little more than just punching bad guys in the face. And just to top it off, he promptly copyrights Spider-Man's image and makes him into a merchandising tool. After all, that guy who keeps a secret identity isn't willing or able to expose his identity by laying down a patent on his costume, let alone raising a lawsuit or complaint.
    • Likewise, a major Hollywood film is made with Spider-Man as the focus, and to Peter's horror the fact that he has to keep his identity secret means he can't sue, complain, offer input, or even get a royalty check.
    • Kingpin also winds up on the receiving end of this trope as well; if there are vigilantes operating outside the law in New York, eventually they'll get sick of a Karma Houdini always getting off on technicalities. When Daredevil assembles various super-heroes to discuss how to handle the Kingpin, Peter actually has to talk the group out of outright murdering Fisk. Later in the same book Kingpin blows up Matt Murdock's law office, smug in the knowledge that there's no way to prove he did it... Only for Daredevil to break into his home and threaten to very nearly murder his wife. Eventually, Fisk winds up casually and unceremoniously killed because he caught the attention of an ACTUAL super-villain who didn't give a toss about his Karma Houdini status.
  • Shocker is a deconstruction of the Harmless Villain trope. His Butt-Monkey abuse ends up causing him to snap and horrifically torture Spider-Man. It's all but explicitly said that Spider-Man's constant fights with him have wrecked his mental state beyond repair.
  • Punisher isn't portrayed as an Anti-Hero of any sort, he's shown to be exactly what you would expect a man who dresses in skull attire and shoots up criminals to be; a complete psychopath with little to no self-control who does more harm than good.
  • Spider-Man ends up with severe emotional and mental scarring from all the traumatic stuff he experiences. Daredevil notes repeatedly that this really isn't the kind of job a down on his luck teen from the suburbs should be getting into.
  • J Jonah Jameson is also arguably a deconstruction of the complete caricature his 616!counterpart is, and whilst utterly abrasive, has been shown to be an objective newsman with incredibly strong morals.
  • Daredevil gets a much darker portrayal than his 616!counterpart, having no qualms about killing his enemies and even (in the case of Wilson Fisk) holding their loved ones hostage to get to them. His relationship with Spider-Man is also drastically different; instead of being a close ally that respects and even relates to him, Daredevil treats him mostly with disdain and often chews him out for being, in his own opinion, a naive, inexperienced kid with no business fighting crime. While this could be explained as Daredevil wanting to keep a teenager from getting involved in a life he may not be ready for, it doesn't change the fact that he's very much a Jerk Ass to Peter (to the point of physically assaulting him on at least one occasion) and goes to extremes that 616 Daredevil would never go to. It goes to show that Daredevil's brand of vigilante justice wouldn't exactly make him the nicest, or sanest person.

May 11th 2019 at 4:45:56 AM

Can Techno Babble and Perfectly Cromulent Word apply to the same word in the same instance?

VideoGame.Jimmy And The Pulsating Mass:

  • Perfectly Cromulent Word: In the beginning, when talking to Andrew, Jimmy's dad, he discusses the crystal he's looking at with Techno Babble:
    Hello, Jimmy. Did you know that polyaacharine crystals take several millenia to exasterate? And who knows how long for one of this size? Yet this one seems to be supported on this newly-formed cloud bridge.
    I'll have to add this to my notes.

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
Merseyuser1 from Greater Manchester, United Kingdom
May 11th 2019 at 10:15:07 AM

Would these examples of Ultimate Universe fit the trope or are they too short.

From Anime.Fullmetal Alchemist:

  • Ultimate Universe: To the original manga, in the sense that it distills parts of it while giving the story a much darker tone, handles it a bit more realistically (the fight scenes are often short and brutal instead of epic battles, while the villains are a bit more down-to-earth, so to speak) and deconstructs certain aspects of the original. It also exists as an Alternate Continuity, and adds a new spin to the overall plot.

From Tropes Qto Z:

Is this a ZCE?

Also, from The Transformers Megaseries, a possible ZCE:

Finally, from FanFic.Earth 27, isn't this another trope and not what's described:

  • Ultimate Universe: Earth 27 takes elements from various DC-related media properties, such as characters, settings, and plot points, and merges them into one universe with its own twists.

Edited by Merseyuser1 on May 11th 2019 at 6:15:33 PM

May 11th 2019 at 10:20:51 AM

From YMMV.Code Geass Lelouch Of The Resurrection.

What an Idiot!: Compared to the original series, the dumbest thing Ohgi does in this continuity might as well be how he tried committing suicide. Look, we get that you still screwed up and you're really sorry (and this probably means that so is your original counterpart), but did you have to try it in front of Lelouch, who still sees you as a one of his closest allies and doesn't even care about what happened anymore? Not to mention you still have Viletta and Naoto to look after.

I believe this wouldn't be an example on the account of looking at it in the Japanese view of seppuku in which someone who dishonored would commit ritual suicide to amend.

Gacha Is A Lie.
May 11th 2019 at 11:23:45 AM


The two really short descriptions are clear Zero Context Examples. The Ultimate Universe page lists several components that an Ultimate Universe might have, and those descriptions fail to mention any of them; they could have all of them, or just a few, and it's just not enough information. Even the ZCE has some examples of a ZCE as "[name] is this trope."

The Fullmetal Alchemist example seems valid.

The Earth 27 example is ambiguous. I'd normally lean towards not an example, but the Ultimate Universe trope page itself has a bunch of poorly-elaborated examples, so both this one and the FMA one seem great in comparison. I'd keep it for now.

Edited by Darkaros on May 11th 2019 at 1:28:20 PM

razorrozar7 I'll be pretty one day. from Oregon Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
I'll be pretty one day.
May 11th 2019 at 11:39:07 AM

[up][up]that's clear misuse. What an Idiot! specifically applies to actions that are idiotic in the context of the narrative and narrative convention, and also have a specific format that's expected to be followed in writing the examples. pull it with fire.

e: huh, the page doesn't actually mention it, but almost all What an Idiot! entries follow the format of:

  • Work: Explanation of circumstances

You'd Expect: actions that make sense within the narrative

Instead: actions that don't make sense within the narrative

i thought this was a hard rule, but it appears to just be a convention.

Edited by razorrozar7 on May 11th 2019 at 11:43:22 AM

I'm Chloe. I fix things. Only you can prevent ZCEs.
May 11th 2019 at 12:15:29 PM

Is this example on YMMV.Professor Layton Vs Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney an example?

"* Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy: The ending is happy, but there are so much deaths and moral ambiguity on the way to it that "no-one really died" comes off not as a relief but an asspull to make sure that everyone, regardless of their actual actions, are just innocent victims."

razorrozar7 I'll be pretty one day. from Oregon Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
I'll be pretty one day.
May 11th 2019 at 12:42:24 PM

[up]Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy indicates that it only applies if the conflict is meaningless because a) all sides are heinously evil or b) there's no hope whatsoever of a positive outcome. it sounds like the trope they're looking for is more along the lines of Esoteric Happy Ending, although that's not quite right either imo. it's definitely not an example of DIAA.

I'm Chloe. I fix things. Only you can prevent ZCEs.
May 11th 2019 at 1:13:04 PM

I was going to make an edit to Madagascar 3: Europe's Most Wanted, but I'm not sure it's a proper example.

Skipper: I never thought I'd say this on American soil; but the Russki is right.

Also, just to clarify; Skipper is using "Russki"note  as a synonim for "Russian", and has been doing so ever since he first met Vitaly. And any self-respecting American who remembers the whole "Better dead than Red" debacle in WWII can understand why Skipper would invoke said trope.

rjd1922 Ultimate Adora-bot from Illinois Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Ultimate Adora-bot
May 11th 2019 at 2:43:14 PM

[up] Isn't that more I Can't Believe I'm Saying This? EDIT: Sorry, I saw this before on Ask the Tropers and misread it.

I think this example on No Ending better describes a Gainax Ending, and is rather complainy:

  • A 1996 Point and click adventure game called Fable (no relation to the other Fable). After an epic adventure full of Scenery Porn, the protagonist learns of a race called the Mecubarz and takes the knowledge for himself using their technology. The ending is then...a cutscene of him reading a book on what happened in a jail you saw earlier in the game (In Hell) with a narrator mentioning something that doesn't make any sense. Supposedly; that was the UK version of the game (which is what you will most commonly find on YouTube). The US version, according to rumours, gave a different ending that was only slightly better, wherein Quickthrope returns to have lunch with his girlfriend. Many people agreed the ending was perhaps one of the biggest screw-yous in gaming history, as absolutely no closure was given to the story at all. This is also a good example of a Gainax Ending gone totally wrong.

Edited by rjd1922 on May 11th 2019 at 7:10:00 AM

Believe in Keebs.
May 11th 2019 at 2:51:16 PM

[up]Dude, read it again. I actually did change it to ICBIST before posting it here. EDIT: No prob, it's a minor mistake anyone could've made.

Edited by Gofastmike on May 11th 2019 at 11:08:56 AM

May 11th 2019 at 2:59:25 PM

8510 — The Fullmetal Alchemist 2003 anime is not an Ultimate Universe. It doesn't "distill" anything, because there was nothing to distill; at the time, the manga was the only Fullmetal Alchemist content out there. It adapts the chapters of the manga that had been published up to that point more-or-less faithfully. In fact, the anime only deviates at all because the manga was still being written at the time.

Also, the anime ends with the protagonists' homeland being invaded by interdimensional Nazis, so I wouldn't really call it a more realistic take...

Night Vision Image Quality Cleanup
May 11th 2019 at 3:02:07 PM

[up][up]If he starts the sentence with "I never thought I'd say this...", then it counts.

Edited by Tabs on May 11th 2019 at 3:02:26 AM

May 11th 2019 at 3:52:23 PM

[up]x5: It's not Invoked in this instance; it's simply Played Straight, which doesn't need to be mentioned.

- Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!
May 11th 2019 at 7:32:27 PM

Kick Them While They Are Down... Could that be applied semi-literally? Emphasis mine:

  • Jimmy and the Pulsating Mass: When Beatrice Mouse explains how losing a battle works:
    Well, monsters aren't mean enough to kill you. They'll take you back to somewhere safe, and fix you up.
    But, just because they won't kill you doesn't mean they won't kick you while you're down. If you lose a fight, monsters will take half your money.

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
May 11th 2019 at 8:06:46 PM

[up][up]So instead of "Invoked by Skipper", I can change it to "Done by Skipper"? I'd like to avoid making major changes to it, and the fewer, the better.

razorrozar7 I'll be pretty one day. from Oregon Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
I'll be pretty one day.
May 11th 2019 at 8:29:07 PM

[up]probably better to just leave that out entirely; it's a teensy bit nattery. also, in the quote, that should be a comma, not a semicolon. i would word it like so:

Skipper: I never thought I'd say this on American soil, but the Russki is right.

I'm Chloe. I fix things. Only you can prevent ZCEs.
May 11th 2019 at 8:35:27 PM

Im wonder if Wrestling.WWENXT can be considered a More Popular Spinoff to Wrestling.WWE Raw and Smackdown. NXT is just use as a development for wrestlers before being move to the Main Roster of Raw and Smackdown. However, fans see it as a more better product compare to the main ones.

Edited by WhirlRX on May 11th 2019 at 11:35:58 AM

Gacha Is A Lie.

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