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Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Metaverse An egg from New-Age Retro City Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
An egg
Apr 22nd 2019 at 9:39:43 AM

Some more thoughts about Ultimate's Memetic Loser section:

  • Since Waluigi is the whipping boy for the fandom in terms of "popular characters that haven't been promoted to playable" as a whole and is listed on the YMMV page for Smash in general, I don't think he needs to be present on Ultimate since he's always gotten this treatement from the fandom.
  • Pyrosphere/Miiverse... can places be considered losers? I'd cut them.
  • The R.O.B. example sounds like it can go if it's just a "minor case".
  • Adam Malkovich sounds more like a case of Take That, Scrappy!, given how decisive Other M was and the fact he's a one star Spirit.
  • Viridi and Ashley sound like examples, but they should probably have any complaining trimmed.
  • I'm not sure if characters who have never made an appearance in a certain media can count as losers for the media in question. I'm iffy on if Banjo and Kazooie and Jack Frost truly qualify since neither have appeared in any capacity in Smash before.
    • If they do actually qualify, Banjo and Kazooie should be moved to the main Super Smash Bros YMMV page, since Ultimate isn't a unique case. They've received this treatment for years.
  • Tom Nook, Duster, Wii Fit Trainer, Snake, Bayonetta, Pikachu, Futaba and Akechi sound like legitimate examples. My opinion on the last two might be coming from a place of bias but I've seen them receive this treatment, and they should probably be combined since they're both part of the same group.

Edited by Metaverse on Apr 22nd 2019 at 11:02:20 AM

I'm illiterate. Super Man 64 has a better story than Persona 5.
gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York
Apr 22nd 2019 at 9:44:49 AM

Reposting from the previous page so it won't get lost.

From VideoGame.Shin Sakura Wars:

  • Kamiyama arrives in Tokyo's Ueno Station via train at the beginning of the game, which references Sakura Shinguji's arrival in Tokyo in Sakura Wars, as well as Ichiro Ogami's own arrival in Paris in Is Paris Burning?.
  • If the Sega Fes 2019 announcement trailer is of any indication, Kamiyama's first confrontation with the demon after arriving in Tokyo references the famous Action Prologue of Sakura Wars where Sakura battles with the Wakiji in Ueno Park.

Are those Call-Back or Internal Homage examples?

No matter who you are, always be yourself.
Apr 22nd 2019 at 9:51:54 AM

Gonna do the same thing here and post this again so it isn't lost (forget about the other example I gave. I've decided I don't need to ask since it pretty obviously is one, I'm still a bit unsure on the Another Code example though):

In Another Code: Two Memories (the game is called Trace Memory in North America) Ashley asks the guy pretending to be her father about her mother's murder. If the player has, without any prompting at all, gone out of their way to take a photo of the newspaper article about the murder using the in-game camera, the scene is altered slightly: instead of just telling her supposed father that she saw an article, she instead shows him the photo you took and asks about the article in the photo.

Would this count for a Developers' Foresight example?

Pichu-kun ...
Apr 22nd 2019 at 10:47:15 AM

This was deleted off of Transplanted Character Fic:

  • Blood of Beauty is a Sonic the Hedgehog Paranormal Romance fanfic, in which the only things related to Sonic are the characters (in their appearances and personalities, as their backstories are changed). It takes place in 1880s America and focuses on Shadow the Hedgehog, a vampire hedgehog living in a vampire village deep in a cavern. He then falls in love with Blaze the Cat, a wealthy mortal living in the outside world.

The edit reason states that the author didn't want the example listed anymore because it's a mediocre Dead Fic of theirs. Is that against the rules or not?

Serac Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Apr 22nd 2019 at 12:39:34 PM

The Fic May Be Yours, but the Trope Page Is Ours

In other words, it is against wiki policy to remove that example.

Edited by Serac on Apr 22nd 2019 at 2:39:54 PM

Apr 22nd 2019 at 5:06:17 PM

On Manic Pixie Dream Girl:

  • In Angel Beats! Heaven's Door, Hinata is at first a bit put off by Yuri's violent behaviour and awkward social skills, but in the end she's the one who gives him a goal and a will to struggle in his afterlife. For this reason, not only he but everyone else who later joins their group is eager to put up with her ridiculous plans and her moments of Insane Troll Logic. It helps that more often than not, said ridiculous plans end up working.

I'm unsure whether it's an example because Yuri has her own goal from moment one. She drags Hinata along after they meet to be a part of her cause, and he ends up willingly supporting her. The purpose of the group they make is Yuri's goal.

The trope description talks about "lack of independent goals" as a defining feature of the trope, but it's not clear whether it's an essential feature — see the paragraph that starts "Despite all that".

Edited by Twiddler on Apr 22nd 2019 at 5:06:34 AM

Crossover-Enthusiast Plotting something from somewhere doing something Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Plotting something
Apr 22nd 2019 at 5:39:20 PM

[up][up][up] What Serac said. Add it back if it hasn't been already.

She/Her | "How can I ruin these wonderful people's lives today?"
Merseyuser1 from Greater Manchester, United Kingdom
Apr 23rd 2019 at 6:02:57 AM

I found these examples at and am uncertain if they should be on the work page, for an Alternate History Web Original page, WebOriginal.Dirty Laundry An Alternate1980s (which I've added to Follow This Page, since I'm trying to slowly re-write parts) :

  • Original Flavour: For the timeline, "I Want a Panda".
    • This also goes for the document portions of the timeline, like Roger Ebert's E.T. II review or Mark Crispin Miller's "Boxed In: TV After 1984" column.

and (shouldn't this be in trivia):

The reason I ask is - if something's Alternate History, surely Original Flavour doesn't apply as it's a Fan Fic, not an Alternate History trope, unless I'm wrong?

Edited by Merseyuser1 on Apr 23rd 2019 at 2:03:50 PM

Apr 23rd 2019 at 4:47:16 PM

First example: No, because the work IS an original work. The only source material it should be a fan fic of is Real Life. And, well, every single piece of entertainment you could be entertained by would count.

Second example: Yes, it should stay there, because the creator is talking about a band that exists only in the work's universe. Well, the band existed in real life (maybe) and made a song with that title (maybe), but the song is different. The band didn't dress up as raisins while preforming their song, for starters.

Apr 23rd 2019 at 7:04:45 PM

Once Is Not Enough, is about hitting with a weapon once, then stopping, right?

Not these, "Killing once isn't enough" examples, which seem pervasive on the page?

  • In most of the Resident Evil games, zombies will eventually die for good if they take enough damage. However, in the Nintendo GameCube remake of the first game, while the zombies will eventually "die" after taking enough damage, if their heads aren't destroyed (or, failing that, if their corpses aren't set alight), then their corpses don't simply disappear once the player leaves the room. Instead, they remain, and, after enough time has passed, they will come back to (un)life... having mutated into the far deadlier Crimson Heads.
    • There is also the title character of Resident Evil 3: Nemesis. The player can knock him down after pouring buckets of lead into him, but he will always get back up and running within short order. He can even be knocked down in the middle of a fight, only to get back up again just as a player goes to check if he dropped any special items, which usually earns them a walloping.
  • The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind's Bloodmoon expansion has Spriggans, a hostile tree-like Plant People race with a Gaia's Vengeance tilt. Spriggans must be slain three times before they can be fully killed. Each time they are killed, they come back in a larger and more powerful form with additional magical resistances and immunities. This would be changed for all future games, where they instead have a powerful Healing Factor which kicks in when they get critically low on health. (Which really emulates the same basic effect of them going from nearly dead to fully threatening once again.)
  • In Batman: Arkham Asylum and its sequel Arkham City, you have to use a special takedown move to make sure a mook does not get back up (and most of the time, they will).

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York
Apr 23rd 2019 at 7:22:32 PM

From Trivia.Ben Hur:

  • Troubled Production: As detailed in the dedicated subpage, Ben-Hur had several production issues. MGM first developed the film in 1952, but it suspended production after 1956 after original director Sidney Franklin resigned; the Fall of the Studio System didn't help matters either. Then, in 1957, MGM president Joseph Vogel announced that the studio would finally begin production on the 1959 film in an effort to save it. That year, director William Wyler joined the project after producer Sam Zimbalist offering him to spend up to $10 million on the film and showed him the storyboards for the chariot race. While the initial budget was $7 million, it eventually increased to $15,000,000 by the summer of 1958, making it the largest budget of any film produced at the time. Wyler also had initial reservations with Zimbalist's decision to make the film widescreen. MGM planned to start filming in Libya on March 1, 1958, but the government canceled the production's film permit for religious reasons 11 days later. Even after principal photography began on May 15, 1958, numerous script rewrites were made and filming was often delayed. The intensity of the filming schedule was so great that a doctor was brought in to give a vitamin B complex injection to anyone who requested it. By November 1958, production was slowing down and Sam Zimbalist died of a heart attack that month. To speed the process up, Wyler often kept principal actors on standby to shoot pick-up scenes if the first unit slowed down. During post-production, the film's editing was complicated by the 70mm footage being printed; since there was no editing equipment at the time, the footage was thus reduced to 35mm and then cut.

Edited by gjjones on Apr 24th 2019 at 3:52:51 PM

No matter who you are, always be yourself.
Merseyuser1 from Greater Manchester, United Kingdom
Apr 24th 2019 at 4:16:16 AM

I created WesternAnimation.Mr Magoo 2019 (only seen a few episodes) and added these tropes, but am uncertain if I've used them correctly:

I wasn't sure if I've used some of them correctly or if they need expansion.

I've included Minion with an F in Evil but aren't certain if that's correct, and as for Pro Wrestling Episode, should it br another trope?

Edited by Merseyuser1 on Apr 24th 2019 at 12:16:44 PM

XFllo Witch from Where foxes bid people good night... Relationship Status: Love potion #9
Apr 24th 2019 at 12:07:54 PM

Re: Manic Pixie Dream Girl asked here

I don't think she fits either. It doesn't hit other defining features of the trope, at least they're not mentioned in the description.

XFllo Witch from Where foxes bid people good night... Relationship Status: Love potion #9
Apr 24th 2019 at 12:37:36 PM

[up][up] ~Merseyuser 1, you seem to have problems with Zero-Context Example (or poorly explained, half-context examples, at any rate).

Also, the page needs to be indexed. See How Indexing Works.

If I remember correctly, you've been told once before that checking a large amount of examples posted at once in one huge post is time-consuming for others, especially without your reasoning why you think the tropes might or might not apply.

Edited by XFllo on Apr 25th 2019 at 10:41:24 AM

sgamer82 from Meridian, ID
Apr 24th 2019 at 1:24:48 PM

Case in point:

  • Adapted Out: Who is Waldo and why is his nonexistence significant?
  • Alternate Continuity: What's actually different/alternate about the style and tone?
  • Art Shift: What about its connection to Zig And Sharko justifies the trope? How does it actually occur in-series?
  • Big Bad: What does Fizz the Hamster do that makes him the cause of most of the problems in the story?

Seeing the trend thus far?

Plus, remember how in Eragon everyone cries "a single tear"? Yeah, just try that with One Piece and see if it works
Apr 24th 2019 at 1:28:42 PM

Is Trope 2000 for any title with any number that's within 1 digit of a millenium?

Or just 2000?

'Cause it seems like Film.Two Thousand One A Space Odyssey and it's book might count, if the broader definition is used...

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
Yinyang107 from the True North Relationship Status: Tongue-tied
Apr 24th 2019 at 1:41:56 PM

[up]I'm not sure if 2001 qualifies, because it's literally about the year 2001. It's not just a number arbitrarily tacked on.

Maybe someday, they'll see a hero is just a man who knows he is free. R.I.P. "Grammie" Ruth Watson, 1927-2014
Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Apr 24th 2019 at 1:45:50 PM

Trope 2000 is not about the year, it's about "2000" or similar multiple of 10^3 being tacked onto a name arbitrarily to make it seem cooler. The work being set in the designated year doesn't automatically exclude it from the trope, but if the year is significant to the story instead of being an afterthought, it's probably not an example.

When 2001 was written, it was imagined that we might have spaceships able to go to Jupiter (or Saturn) in that year. Obviously, we don't, but it wasn't a crass exploitation of the title to goose sales.

On the other hand, the "Jumbotron 2000" large-format television probably has nothing to do with the year 2000 and its name is just a marketing gimmick.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 24th 2019 at 4:49:26 AM

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Apr 24th 2019 at 3:44:29 PM

So, would Anime.Pokemon 2000 count for Trope 2000, due to its title being an Annual Title?

Edited by Malady on Apr 24th 2019 at 3:45:08 AM

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Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Apr 24th 2019 at 5:23:50 PM

Is there precedent for declaring that Trope 2000 instead of Annual Title, or in addition to?

TV Tropes Changelog -- keep track of updates to the site!
Apr 24th 2019 at 5:35:57 PM

Well, it seems to have been there from the start... There's no context other than it being an Annual Title.

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naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Apr 24th 2019 at 8:05:52 PM

Trope 2000 is about adding the 2000 to technology to make it seem cool, snazzy, or futuristic. It's unclear to me whether that title is an Annual Title or not, but I would lean towards Annual Title over Trope 2000.

Is Always Murder omnipresent enough to make aversions notable? Would it be worth listing a cop show that only deals with petty crimes such as vandalism as an aversion? Or would that be an inversion.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Crossover-Enthusiast Plotting something from somewhere doing something Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Plotting something
Apr 25th 2019 at 4:54:00 AM

Does Spell My Name with an "S" include characters with punctuation in their name? Like K.O. and KO, for instance.

She/Her | "How can I ruin these wonderful people's lives today?"
Apr 25th 2019 at 5:12:02 AM

[up][up] - Its only context was "It was released in 2000", a.k.a, it's named after the release year. a.k.a it's an Annual Title.

Edited by Malady on Apr 25th 2019 at 5:12:24 AM

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