Do you have trouble remembering the difference between Deathbringer the Adorable and Fluffy the Terrible?
Do you have trouble recognizing when you've written a Zero-Context Example?
Not sure if you really have a Badass Bookworm or just a guy who likes to read?
Well, this is the thread for you. We're here to help you will all the finer points of example writing. If you have any questions, we can answer them. Don't be afraid. We don't bite. We all just want to make the wiki a better place for everyone.
Useful Tips:
- Make sure that the example makes sense to both people who don't know the work AND don't know the trope.
- Wrong: The Mentor: Kevin is this to Bob in the first episode.
- Right: The Mentor: Kevin takes Bob under his wing in the first episode and teaches him the ropes of being a were-chinchilla.
- Never just put the trope title and leave it at that.
- Wrong: Badass Adorable
- Right: Badass Adorable: Xavier, the group's cute little mascot, defeats three raging elephants with both hands tied behind his back using only an uncooked spaghetti noodle.
- When is normally far less important than How.
- A character name is not an explanation.
- Wrong: Full Moon Silhouette: Diana
- Right: Full Moon Silhouette: At the end of her transformation sequence into Moon Princess Misty, Diana is shown flying across the full moon riding a rutabaga.
Other Resources:
For best results, please include why you think an example is iffy in your first post.
Also, many oft-misused tropes/topics have their own threads, such as Surprisingly Realistic Outcome (here) and Fan-Preferred Couple (here). Tropers are better able to give feedback on examples you bring up to specific threads.
For cleaning up examples of Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard, you must use their dedicated threads: Complete Monster Cleanup, Magnificent Bastard Cleanup.
Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 18th 2023 at 11:42:55 AM
- Even Evil Has Standards: He might bully people for fun with his friends, but animal abuse is crossing a line.
Stephen: Beating up innocent people is fun and fine, but innocent animals...that I can't forgive!!
Is this a downplayed example of Even Evil Has Standards (since he's not evil, just a schoolyard bully) or would Everyone Has Standards be better?
Might go for Everyone Has Standards if he isn't a evil bully.
From The Rising Of The Shield Hero
Granted, i dont know that much of the series other from clips and this website.
Naofumi in general really doesnt embody benevolence, and his Freudian Excuse is pretty tame compared to similar heroes in the same genre who are way more heroic. Instead, we have a character who appears to be fairly cool with slavery, and gets enjoyment out of watching a snuff video of an enemy. This is normally villain behavior.
First sentence seems to compare him to other characters in the isekai genre. Guy still got screwed by being betrayed and accused of rape and being treated like crap which did jaded him. Im not sure on the slavery deal. The snuff part is im assuming Malty's death which is false since he was very sickened by the act but was forced to watch it.
Edited by WhirlRX on Feb 16th 2019 at 10:58:21 AM
That's misuse. It doesn't matter how villainous the "hero" is; the trope is specifically about when other characters call them out on it.
This is from Jane Eyre:
- Schoolyard Bully All Grown Up: Maturity does not improve John, he remains a bully lifelong.
Is this a correct use?
It could use more context; there's barely more there than "Trope happens."
What bullying actions did the character take as a child? As an adult?
John picked on Jane when they were kids. His bad attitude apparently only worsens with age, as he flunks out of college, sponges off his mother, and spends most of his time at brothels.
According to the trope description, Schoolyard Bully All Grown Up is when someone who was a schoolyard bully as a child becomes a full-fledged villain and even greater threat as an adult. That doesn't sound like John became a villain, just kind of a worthless layabout. Does John become a villain?
This was deleted from BrokenAesop.Live Action Films:
- Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan: Spock's death forces Kirk to accept that there are things he can't do anything about … and then the entire next film is devoted to the crew bringing Spock back to life. Though in their defense, at the time Star Trek II was made, the plan was indeed to have him stay dead. And even though they did get Spock back, Kirk still had to suffer for it. He lost his son, David Marcus, who was killed trying to protect Saavik from the Klingons. He also loses the Enterprise, which was in many ways his wife. His face as he watches the burning wreckage says it all.
The stated reason was "Star Trek II is only broken when III is taken into account", which is why I proposed cutting this example from BrokenAesop.Western Animation:
- The moral of "The Times They Are A Changeling", don't judge a book by it's cover, is soundly broken when "To Where And Back Again" shows that "good" changelings actually look entirely different than "bad" changelings, that is bright and colorful with fairy-like wings instead of dark with fangs. As far as changelings are concerned you absolutely can judge those books by their covers.
So is contradicted by future works an example or not? Is "Trek" not and example because it argues with itself? Is "Changeling" an example because it ties directly into the episode it's broken (which I felt wasn't an example because the Changelings were judged not by their appearance, but their past deeds, as they were able to accept the Changeling in question before they transformed, and would have acceded the Changelings Heel–Race Turn even if it didn't involve their physical transformation)?
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Feb 16th 2019 at 5:06:01 AM
Well, there is this from the main page.
- An episode of Darkwing Duck had Drake go to his high school reunion and meet the Alpha Bitch and Jerk Jock who made his life miserable for years; only now, they're rich and successful and still treat him like crap (and for bonus points, they idolize Darkwing). During a fight with Megavolt (who also attended the school), DW's mask comes off and the bullies make fun of him some more. In the end, he saves the day they apologize for the way they acted and for not recognizing that he was a good person, and promise to keep his secret (he says thanks, but uses hypnosis to erase their memories anyway).
- Affably Evil: Schoolyard bully version. Greeted Max enthusiastically, carrying no hard feelings about the day before, then casually decided to beat him up. Another time he extorted Max for fifty cents, but gave him change for a dollar.
Is it clear from the last sentence what it's describing? What happened is that Johnny (the bully) extorted Max for fifty cents, but Max only had a whole dollar, so Johnny gave him change.
I think there's a place for "message of work is contradicted by sequel or further installment" (though I also think that the example's argument against itself may have a point), but I feel like it would be on a page for the subsequent work.
In those particular cases, though, I'd just cut.
Edited by nrjxll on Feb 16th 2019 at 9:20:34 AM
Does this work as an example of Extranormal Institute, since there's not really a sci-fi/fantasy element involved:
- Komi Can't Communicate: Komi and Tadano's school houses students that are weird, plain and simple, characterized by exhibiting extreme personality traits. One of the fears of Tadano regarding Komi's goal is that due to the quirkiness of the students, she might find making friends there particularly difficult. It's a normal school, though. This is by design In-Universe. Entry into the school is based entirely on a student's interview, with the school viewing personality as the most important aspect of a person.
This was deleted twice from YMMV.Mass Effect Andromeda
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Dr Kennedy, the pregnant woman and friend of Addison that you have to track down and save in the quest "The Little Things That Matter". Although the pregnancy and imminent birth of her son in the face of a Roekarr threat is supposed to evoke sympathy, her actions paint her as selfish and entitled. She then steals supplies from the outposts. Once she's rescued, she receives no comeuppance for this, and every character involved speaks of her glowingly.
They're was a probation on pregnancies due to the dangerous situation they were in which she defied, so the situation she's in is her fault.
I previously un-deleted it per this (I admit I should have linked it in my edit reasons) but the same troper who cut it added it back because "No evidence of characters shilling her. Plus, it's poorly written and having a baby is a pretty good excuse". I PM'd them but haven't heard back. I asked the Unintentionally Unsympathetic Cleanup but it's been three days and I haven't heard anything. Thoughts?
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Feb 17th 2019 at 1:34:33 AM
My original position way when that example was first mentioned in the Unintentionally Unsympathetic thread was that I was undecided (there's a lot of thorny issues involved) but leaning towards a cut. I haven't really changed that opinion.
Haven't played the game, but as written, that example seems fine to me.
Does Contested Sequel fall under the six-month delay of Broken Base, since it's due to a Broken Base over whether a sequel is better or worse?
This is from Derek's character sheet in Characters.MiloMurphysLaw.
- The Bad Guy Wins: Almost. In The Phineas and Ferb Effect, he managed to fully convert Milo, Phineas and Ferb's friends and family into evil Pistachions, and have them corner them, alongside Dakota, Cavendish, Orton and Doofenshmirtz. If it weren't for future Doofenshmirtz, aka Professor Time, Derek would've won.
I'd say the "Almost" renders it a non-example. You can't say The Bad Guy Wins and then follow up with "almost"
Edited by sgamer82 on Feb 17th 2019 at 1:45:18 PM
Near-Villain Victory is what you are looking for.
I'll fix that.
- Foreshadowing:
- At some point in season 5, Epic added a new free dance emote, Boogie Down, which looped infinitely unlike the default "Turk" dance. Then season 6 introduced Dance Domination, where a looping dance emote became necessary to claiming the dance floors.
- At the end of the Fortnitemares event, Epic added the heavy assault rifle, which had lower rate of fire in favor of more damage, and its uses seemed limited - then came the Team Terror game mode, which basically combined the spawning cube monsters with 50v50, and the heavy assault rifle became the go-to weapon for destroying cube fragments (usually the rocket launcher would be used, but the load time and hard-to-find ammo made it impractical).
You should probably cut that.
- Altair/the "Military Uniform Princess" of Re:CREATORS wishes to get even with a world that bullied her Creator relentlessly and then drove her to commit suicide. OK, that in and of itself sounds sympathetic... except that she goes all Omnicidal Maniac about it and tries to cause a Negative Space Wedgie that would wipe out the planet and everybody in it (even the people said Creator loved), goes psycho and overkills the living hell out of the one Creation on the protagonists' side that tried to reach out to her and understand her (for having the gall of trying to understand her), and essentially weaponized Popularity Power In-Universe to manipulate reality and become an In-Universe Villain Sue that killed most of the cast via curb-stomping and then, in order to appease her, had to be given a twisted variation of Only the Leads Get a Happy Ending by the shell-shocked Creators of the people she killed and thus allowed to go away as a Karma Houdini. As a result many viewers felt the series had a tremendously disappointing finale.
I question if it's an example because of this under Deconstructed Character Archetype:
- Altair/the "Military Uniform Princess" from Re:CREATORS can be viewed as the deconstruction of Draco in Leather Pants and Evil Is Cool. Despite attacking the main characters, she was all but mysterous with ambiguous motives and wore a very stylish suit, hence her nickname. These are all traits of popular antagonist characters. Her popularity dropped when she brutally murders Mamika for trying to help her cope with her Creator's suicide, but then she manages to ascend into a full-blown In-Universe Villain Sue thanks to the fact she had a Hundred Percent Adoration Rating of those who were viewing the "Elimination Chamber Festival", and ultimately gets what she wants in the end and escapes punishment (because there is absolutely nothing the other characters can do to stop her other than facilitate this). After all, who cares about all the other characters that she murdered and/or traumatized if the most badass character gets their happy ending?
It sounds like a metafictional example that's supposed to leave audiences pissed off/ unsatisfied, so is the unsympatheticness unintentional? Is she treated as sympathetic in work (outside her metafictional warping) for her actions? Should I trim her Unintentionally Unsympathetic to just focus on her reason and not actions? Is Deconstructed Character Archetype even an example since it "can be viewed as"?
I'd ask the Unintentionally Unsympathetic Cleanup but they haven't had any activity since my last inquiry there days ago.
Bumblebee was just confirmed to be a full-on Continuity Reboot to the Transformers Film Series, so what should we do with these Continuity Nod and Continuity Snarl entries on the film's page?
- Continuity Nod: During its production, the film started as an explicit prequel to the Michael Bay directed entries intended to bridge the gap between Bumblebee's WWII adventures and the first film before undergoing significant rewrites that made the film into a reboot. As such the film does still have some connective tissue to those films:
- Megatron is absent from the Cybertron battle scenes, due to being frozen on Earth at the time the film would be taking place.
- Sector Seven is shown to operate from the Hoover Dam, which was where the AllSpark and Megatron's body were being kept hidden in the 2007 film.
- A younger Seymour Simmons appears amongst Sector Seven's ranks, subservient to Agent Burns.
- Bumblebee manages to teach himself how to "speak" via the radio Charlie installs in him, which is how he communicated in the other films.
- At the end of the film, before departing, Bee scans a yellow Camaro driving down the Golden Gate Bridge, and changes into it. Charlie calls him out for not doing that before, but is thrilled nonetheless. Given Bee knows exactly what Camaros mean to her, it's likely he scanned that model on purpose.
- Continuity Snarl: There are as many nods to the existing Bay-directed Transformers film franchise as there are differences, especially towards the ending, which turned this movie into a soft Continuity Reboot:
- You might notice that Cybertron doesn't have the mechanical trees or the honeycomb architecture of the previous films.
- Transformers states that Cybertronians learned English from "the world wide web." In this film, they all know English even before arriving on Earth, and speak it even among themselves.
- In Transformers the Autobots arrive on Earth looking for the Allspark. In this film, Optimus was already looking to build a resistance base on Earth, and had charged Bumblebee with defending the planet.
- On that note, Optimus had already arrived on Earth at some point during, or even before, the events of this film, and meets up with Bumblebee driving across the Golden Gate Bridge. At the end of their meeting, more Autobots arrive to join the ranks of the resistance. In the Transformers film, Bee was the only Autobot on Earth until he found Sam, and then he summoned Optimus and the rest of the Autobots.
- According to The Last Knight, Bumblebee was around and fighting Nazis in WWII, which obviously couldn't happen if he first landed in 1987.
- The first film showed that the Autobots had “protoforms” upon first arriving to Earth, not gaining vehicle alt-modes until scanning a nearby vehicle. This film presents them as having their alt-modes and vehicle-based bodies even while they were on Cybertron.
Edited by Primis on Feb 17th 2019 at 4:27:25 AM
We've actually got a thread now discussing prohibiting pre-release troping in general, so definitely cut it from any page where it's already cautioned against.
Edited by nrjxll on Feb 15th 2019 at 5:17:28 AM