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Pichu-kun ...
...
Jan 9th 2019 at 2:21:10 PM

[up][up] I remember there being confusion over Bubblegum (hence why she was on Ambiguously Gay and Ambiguously Bi at different points), but the intended idea is likely that she's bisexual. It's never stated but there's no canonical reason to think otherwise.

Jan 9th 2019 at 2:52:07 PM

The Amazing Spider-Man Series:

  • Hype Backlash: The Amazing Spider-Man 2 got good reviews from overseas markets. Once the movie came out in the United States, the response became much more divided, and the film's performance fell below Sony's expectationsnote , and it turned out to be the least profitable Spider-Man movie that Sony ever produced.

I'm leaning to cut the diviviseness was not clearly do to fans and critics praising it, at least the one's it mentioned didn't effect US fans to my knowledge. (Was it released in full early overseas? Otherwise it doesn't count since it's just a preview.) Thoughts?

XFllo from Uhr.
Jan 9th 2019 at 3:16:17 PM

[up] Based on the write-up, I'd delete it. More context would be needed. I also think that "mixed reviews" and "divided opinions" do not equal "hype backlash". "Various audiences have various reactions" is not Hype Backlash either.

Jan 9th 2019 at 3:38:40 PM

Pichu@She did had a boyfriend in the past and she with Marceline. Though, it may seem she was largely into women.

Gacha Is A Lie.
Jan 9th 2019 at 4:58:58 PM

Reposting from the previous page:

Given how often Critical Research Failure is misused on this wiki, can I get confirmation as to whether or not the following examples from The Dom Reviews are being used correctly?:

  • Critical Research Failure: While The Dom is generally on point, he does make some questionable claims.
    • A severe case in point is Goldfinger, as was pointed out by this response video. Just one example: The Dom complains about how often the phrase "yellow-faced bastard" was used in the book... the responder shows that "yellow-faced bastard" is never used at all in the book (though to be fair he finds another offensive phrase which The Dom may have been thinking of).
    • In his Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire LIA, Terrence claims that the film doesn't make any sense because of how much material was left out from the book. Anyone who's at least watched the film can tell you that the film does still make sense as-is, since it keeps the general storyline intact, it's just that some things are left without details due to not being focused on like in the books.

gjjones Musician/Composer from Amherst, New York
Musician/Composer
Jan 9th 2019 at 5:06:27 PM

Reposting from the previous pages:

I'm thinking about adding some tropes regarding Vanessa and the Witch Queen from Black Clover:

  • Did You Just Flip Off Cthulhu?: Vanessa tells the powerful Witch Queen that the latter's not her mother anymore to her face and unleashes the Red String of Fate. The queen uses Blood Control on her but is quickly taken out.
  • Did You Just Punch Out Cthulhu?: After Vanessa finally unlocks her Red String of Fate, she uses it to defeat the Witch Queen, who is powerful than her.
  • Nice Job Fixing It, Villain!: The Witch Queen manipulating Asta to try killing Noelle and taunting Vanessa over how she would return to the forest one day allows the latter to awaken her Red String of Fate and finish the Witch Queen off.

Thoughts about this?

Also, in Trivia.James And The Giant Peach, is the following What Could Have Been entry regarding Toots and the Upside Down House relevant enough to be kept?

No matter who you are, always be yourself.
Jan 9th 2019 at 7:30:32 PM

Not sure if this is the place to ask this, but is it okay to list Fan Works right in a work's description?

Awful Hospital's description lists four different fan works, only one of which has its own page.

I know that There Is No Such Thing as Notability, but three out of those four fan works were abandoned, and one of those three — The Watchtower — looks like it barely even got started, and was only added by its creator to self-promote. Is it really worth listing those ones, even if this is allowed?

Edited by Primis on Jan 9th 2019 at 9:43:58 AM

Night Vision Image Quality Cleanup
wingedcatgirl The wings are... retractable, probably. from Catgirl Heaven, presumably Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
The wings are... retractable, probably.
Jan 9th 2019 at 7:54:15 PM

No, fan works don't get troped on the page of the work that inspired them. They get their own page.

I Have Many Names. You can call me Sylvi, or Tempest, or Katelyn, or 🐱. My pronouns are she/her or they/them. Also, I'm a kittycat!
Jan 9th 2019 at 8:31:28 PM

From Failure Is the Only Option, does this count?

  • In Mass Effect 3, if your EMS is under 1750, you have only one option allowed, "Destroy", and it will scour the galaxy of almost all life, including Earth. By definition, a Pyrrhic Victory.note 

It's a failure-ish in the minds of the audience, and the player, but is it a failure according to the game? The Reapers are still destroyed...

A Pyrrhic Victory, is still a victory?

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
Jan 9th 2019 at 9:50:57 PM

Failure Is the Only Option is about works whose status quos can only be maintained by the protagonists failing at their long-term goals. It has nothing to do with whether a victory "counts" or not.

I say cut it.

Night Vision Image Quality Cleanup
Jan 9th 2019 at 10:13:22 PM

From YMMV.Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney: Spirit Of Justice:

  • Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy: The atmosphere can induce this. Between the DC Act's consequences, the treatment attorneys in Khura'in recieve, Nahyuta commentary being harsher than the usual prosecutor banter, and Jerkass characters like Roger Retinz and Betty De Famme, it can get suffocating for a typical Ace Attorney game and cause the more humorous moments to be diluted.

From my understanding, Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy is for works where the world is dark and both sides of the conflict are equally bad, or things are too hopeless for the good guys meaning the world would still suck by the end of it. While the tone may get darker than previous Ace Attorney games, the tone is still optimistic and the heroes still always win in the end.

Jan 10th 2019 at 12:33:21 AM

BrokenAesop.Western Animation:

  • The Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated episode "Stand and Deliver" seems to have been aiming for a light-hearted feminist fable with a moral along the lines of "Men should listen more and not take women for granted". Somehow, what they hit was "Male attention is the most important thing in a woman's life and they will abandon literally everything to go off with any man who offers it".
  • The entire moral of "The Times They Are A Changeling", don't judge a book by it's cover, is soundly broken when "To Where And Back Again" shows that "good" changelings actually look entirely different than "bad" changelings, that is bright and colorful with fairy-like wings instead of dark with fangs. As far as changelings are concerned you absolutely can judge those books by their covers.

Scooby-Doo sounds more like Alternate Aesop Interpretation, doesn't explain why it's broken. "Changeling", ignores they were being judged for their past actions not their appearances, is that More Clueless Aesop. Thoughts?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jan 10th 2019 at 12:34:31 PM

Crossover-Enthusiast Surprisingly clingy wildlife from the edge of my seat Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surprisingly clingy wildlife
Jan 10th 2019 at 12:48:14 AM

Is this really You Are Not Alone?

  • Recap.Steven Universe S 5 E 27 Escapism
    • Steven remembers that there are still Crystal Gems on earth - Lion, Bismuth, Lapis, and Peridot. While Lapis and Peridot are still poofed, Bismuth isn't, and Lion is very much active.
    • When the Watermelon Stevens realize that Steven is trying to build a raft, they happily help him out before sending him off.

"What about that-" "I don't care anymore, let's just go back to Homeworld."
Tharkun140 The Arch-Douchebag Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
The Arch-Douchebag
Jan 10th 2019 at 2:22:42 AM

No, fan works don't get troped on the page of the work that inspired them. They get their own page.
Does it apply to fanwork pages and their recursive fanfiction?

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Jan 10th 2019 at 3:35:54 AM

Works based on other works are never troped on the source work, regardless of if the source work is original or fanwork.

Works are always troped on their own pages.

Check out my fanfiction!
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Jan 10th 2019 at 5:22:55 AM

As the Duck said, only official derivatives are allowed to exist on the primary work page. A fanwork is, by definition, not officially authorized. You may, however, index such pages on FanWorks.Primary Work Title, regardless of medium.


The grey area is when the work itself has no copyright; the wiki hasn't really decided if unauthorized works retroactively become authorized due to lack of copyright protection.

Jan 10th 2019 at 5:25:03 AM

[up][up][up][up][up] - So, this Failure Is the Only Option wick, from Characters.Mass Effect Commander Shepard:

It's wrong? It'd be more Unwinnable of some kind, or something, because there's no status quo to change?


Also, the first Failure Is the Only Option Video Game entry:

It doesn't count because it's not referencing some kind of Status Quo?

But we have Status Quo Is God, and Laconic.Failure Is The Only Option is saying: You will always fail at achieving the Series Goal, because succeeding will end the story.

But, Laconics are usually not right? But the description doesn't mention Status Quo either...


Recent Unwinnable by Design entry that was added:

  • The sequel Virtual Hydlide is far more forgiving, with one notable exception: if you make it to the end of the game and the fight with Varalys without getting the Sword of Light, he's invincible. The game never bothers to tell you this, never tells you where the sword is, or that it even exists. On top of that, because of the multiple dungeon layouts the location of the sword varies, it's in an otherwise insignificant chest, and if you miss it before beating the boss of the Lost Castle you can't go back to grab it because the dungeon collapses.note 

Sounds more Unwinnable by Mistake, or Insanity? Both, because the latter is YMMV? Or is it just Guide Dang It!?

Edited by Malady on Jan 10th 2019 at 7:52:36 AM

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Jan 10th 2019 at 8:07:42 AM

Almost enough questions for a dedicated Trope Talk thread here ...

It's wrong? It'd be more Unwinnable of some kind, or something, because there's no status quo to change?
Yes, I think that's wrong and should be changed to an Unwinnable wick ("some missions become Unwinnable" may work).

But we have Status Quo Is God, and Laconic.Failure Is The Only Option is saying: You will always fail at achieving the Series Goal, because succeeding will end the story.
I can use Burn Notice to explain this somewhat. The Status Quo is that Micheal is isolated from the larger federal organizations that supported him. It forces him to rely on his friends and family instead of a federal budget. He eventually succeeds at rejoining the federal government, but circumstances and character development means he continues the relationships he made during the series. He defeated the Series Goal, but Status Quo remained unchanged.

Jan 10th 2019 at 12:37:43 PM

I don't think Failure Is the Only Option counts for just any plot-mandated failure. Every story in existence requires the protagonist to fail at some point. Consistent failure at the same long-term goal is the key here.

The Series Goal of Mass Effect was defeating the Reapers. It would be Failure Is the Only Option if Shepard and co. consistently failed to defeat them, but that's not what happened. Several Reapers are taken down over the course of the trilogy, including in the very first game. All three games end with Shepard and co. victorious.

Unwinnable means you literally cannot win the actual game. It has nothing to do with plot or character.

That Unwinnable by Design entry is valid, in my opinion. It would also fit Guide Dang It!. Unwinnable by Insanity is deliberate by the player.


Something I want to clarify: Fan Works were not actually being troped on Awful Hospital's page. It was just a list with external links. Here's the exact text that I deleted:

It's worth noting that Awful Hospital's spawned several fancomics, including, but not limited to Strange School, Sordid Zoo, and Bad Lab, and a text-based "fan adventure", The Watchtower.

Night Vision Image Quality Cleanup
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Jan 10th 2019 at 1:06:10 PM

Unwinnable means you literally cannot win the actual game. It has nothing to do with plot or character.
From the context, I thought it was saying that certain missions cannot be completed. Getting the Bad Ending wouldn't be FITOO or Unwinnable.
Something I want to clarify
The earlier statements covered that scenario and several others. I, at least, was making a broad statement so that lurkers could see a general rule rather than a specific application.

Edited by crazysamaritan on Jan 10th 2019 at 4:10:16 AM

Crossover-Enthusiast Surprisingly clingy wildlife from the edge of my seat Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surprisingly clingy wildlife
Jan 10th 2019 at 5:03:06 PM

Is this Hype Backlash?

  • Steven Universe: In late summer of 2017, Rebecca Sugar revealed the demo to a then upcoming song called "Escapism". Fast forward to a little more than a year later, and many fans are disappointed after the premiere for the episode with the titular song where it's used near the very end of the episode, and not being sung in the series itself despite the singer being the same person voicing Stevonnie.

"What about that-" "I don't care anymore, let's just go back to Homeworld."
Jan 10th 2019 at 5:26:53 PM

[up]used near the very end of the episode, and not being sung in the series itself despite the singer being the same person voicing Stevonnie.

What that even mean? The song was feature in the show itself. I say delete.

Edited by WhirlRX on Jan 10th 2019 at 8:27:03 AM

Gacha Is A Lie.
Crossover-Enthusiast Surprisingly clingy wildlife from the edge of my seat Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surprisingly clingy wildlife
Jan 10th 2019 at 5:40:27 PM

Deleted. Would also like some feedback on the You Are Not Alone examples I posted [up] x10.

"What about that-" "I don't care anymore, let's just go back to Homeworld."
Jan 10th 2019 at 5:48:26 PM

AuthorsSavingThrow.Duck Tales 2017 has a lot of "maybe" examples and I'm not sure if the valid examples are enough to give it its own page.


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