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Crossover-Enthusiast 90's Incarnate from the endless void of Hiatus Relationship Status: Chocolate!
90's Incarnate
TroperNo9001 Adorable Abominable Snowman from Elsa's Ice Palace Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Dec 2nd 2018 at 5:58:23 PM

[up][up]IIRC, Disney movies set in the "present" are assumed to be set in the year they were released, effectively making them Period Pieces.

[up]The entry says that it makes references to Tumblrisms of 2015, if I'm not mistaken.

"Ah... Alone at last."
wingedcatgirl flap flap meow from Catgirl Heaven, presumably Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
flap flap meow
Dec 2nd 2018 at 7:07:25 PM

Frankly, more tumblrisms of 2015 are references to Undertale than referenced by it.

🐱 Name: Sylvi 🐱 Pronouns: it/they/she 🐱
Dec 2nd 2018 at 7:56:26 PM

From YMMV.Zombieland Saga.

  • Ensemble Dark Horse: Tae. Despite being the least important character to the plot, she quickly became a fan-favorite due to being the only zombie who hasn't awakened, which in turn lead to her antics constantly causing trouble for the team. She even manages to become this in universe, garnering the most fans in the sixth episode for her chicken-based antics (much to the confusion of the other girls).

While Tae hasnt gotten a main focus yet, she is part of the main cast and wonder if that disqualified her for the trope. This was add in, deleted and added back.

Gacha Is A Lie.
Pichu-kun ...
Dec 3rd 2018 at 9:44:39 AM

From the general section of the anime manga page of Values Dissonance:

  • In another form of dissonance, America tends to react more harshly to this than other Western countries, as due to SoCalization most media treats the age of consent over there as 18, while several other Western countries (and some other US states) have it at 16, and find it very strange that America reacts so objectionably to teenage sexual activity.

This example feel off and maybe nattery. Isn't the issue more complicated than just the age of consent? I thought it was more in relation to the age of majority.

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Dec 3rd 2018 at 9:50:15 AM

Why do we even have general examples of that trope? They are explicitly forbidden by our policy.

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Pichu-kun ...
Dec 3rd 2018 at 10:33:09 AM

[up] Many of the Values Dissonance pages have General sections. They've been there for years, so I assume they've just been treated as exceptions to the rule.

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Dec 3rd 2018 at 10:39:47 AM

I'm not aware of any exception being made, but I haven't searched for it.

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AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Dec 3rd 2018 at 12:21:18 PM

Many general "examples" have been there for years, as well as other errors, but that doesn't make them legitimate examples.

Check out my fanfiction!
Dec 4th 2018 at 7:34:27 AM

Bringing up these from Robin Hood (2018):

Considering how often Narm is frequently misused, can I get confirmation as too whether these examples are being used correctly:

* Narm:
  • Will Scarlett's story is such a brazen, bald-faced ripoff of Harvey Dent's in The Dark Knight that you simply have to laugh at how they thought they could get away with it.
  • The slow-motion during the fight scenes looks fairly impressive... right up until you see Taron Egerton making some of the silliest faces imaginable.

Does this example have enough context?:

* So Bad, It's Good: The movie either just straight up sucks, or it's wonderfully enjoyable with how much it sucks.

Given that YMMV examples can't be played with, is this example being misused:

* Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Lampshaded briefly by Will towards the end after Robin reveals his identity to the people - this version of Robin doesn't become an outlaw until the very end of the film so for the majority of the time, he's a lord who by rights ought to be fully able to help the people the Sheriff has mistreated and driven from their homes. Instead, he spends the film using his lordly status to (on the outside) side with the Sheriff while his thief persona ("The Hood") doesn't so much leave plenty of money to individual people as drop handfuls of coins as he rides by for everyone to scramble for. Given all that, it's difficult to blame Will for interpreting Robin's Rousing Speech as just another example of a lord ordering his peasants about.

Birdy18 Mr Birdy from Home Relationship Status: Singularity
Mr Birdy
Dec 4th 2018 at 8:22:21 AM

In Issue 57 of the MLP comics, Pinkie Pie threatens to use her new chairs powers in the real world when she takes over diamond's dimension. She turned herself into Chaos Princess Pinkie who is an alicorn. Does this count as Pinkie Pie Superpowered Chaotic Side or Evil Side?

crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Birdy18 Mr Birdy from Home Relationship Status: Singularity
Dec 4th 2018 at 9:42:36 AM

[up] - Because it seems that Robin was trying to be a sympathetic figure but unintentionally failed.

And it's not a lampshading, as much as it is a laying out of the facts.

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
Birdy18 Mr Birdy from Home Relationship Status: Singularity
Mr Birdy
Dec 4th 2018 at 9:49:45 AM

Oh I thought he was talking about my post

Birdy18 Mr Birdy from Home Relationship Status: Singularity
Mr Birdy
Dec 4th 2018 at 10:04:55 AM

I know but it kinda leans more towards one than the other

Dec 5th 2018 at 2:44:36 PM

^Pinkie sounds like she's merely Drunk with Power. That trope will cover it if it's not already listed.

DesignatedHero.Video Games

  • The Shin Megami Tensei: Persona franchise, while generally very downplayed, have heroes that make you question their actions.
    • Persona 3: Yukari Takeba reaches this point in The Answer, where she is fully willing to risk The End of the World as We Know It just because she wants to see the Protagonist again. This only gets worse when Mitsuru, the alleged smart one of the group, sides with her. Yukari's refusal to listen to reason causes the party to go against each other, and she only really gets a slap on the wrist for her actions.
    • Persona 4: Despite their desire to seek the truth, the Investigation Team at times act like huge jerkasses throughout the story. Yosuke often acts like a shameless pervert (right after a girl he had a crush on died, no less) and often makes cracks about Kanji's sexuality, which is something he knows he's deeply insecure about. Chie tends to beat up Yosuke (and on some occasions, the Protagonist and Kanji) regardless of whether he deserves it or not, extorts Yosuke just because he broke a DVD that could have easily been replaced ten times over, and even uses Yosuke's money that he was saving for a motorcycle to buy Teddie an expensive suit (Teddie only gets excused because he was new to the human world and very likely didn't understand how money worked) and then gets defensive when she gets called on it before Yosuke caves in. The rest of the Investigation Team aren't as bad as Yosuke and Chie, but they have their moments, such as the Protagonist and Kanji coercing the girls into entering a beauty pageant, the girls' actions during the Amagi Inn scene, the moments where they'll mock Hanako and Kashiwagi for their lack of beauty, and the various moments where the victims got kidnapped by their own stupidity.
    • Persona 5: The Phantom Thieves are a complicated example. Their course of action when dealing with their Targets is basically brainwashing. They occasionally get called on it, but the people that do are usually either antagonists or have their minds changed in the end. The Thieves themselves question their actions, but only rarely. The two mitigating factors is that the people they brainwash are shown to be Asshole Victims before they even target them, including a nearly-explicit rapist, a few murderers, and a Yakuza boss, and that they turn out to be Unwitting Pawns of the explicitly evil Yaldabaoth, who us using them as part of his scheme to make humanity renounce free will - the option that leads to the good ending is to give up the power to steal hearts, leaving it ambiguous as to whether this was Intended Audience Reaction or not.

It saying they're downplayed is already a flag for removing. P3 the are called out on and ultimately don't go through with it. Half of P5 is arguing against itself. P4 I don't know but it doesn't explain why they are supposed to be viewed as in the right despite this as opposed to flawed heroes. Any objections to cutting?

YMMV.Venom 2018:

  • Internet Backdraft:
    • The film becoming a financial success in spite of its mixed-to-negative reception has quite a few MCU fans worried that said financial success will encourage Sony to end the widely-loved MCU Spider-Man deal and attempt to make their own cinematic universe with only Spider-Man and his associated characters again, thus possibly tarnishing the Spider-Man franchise's reputation a third time due to Sony's infamously-terrible track record with films. However, others point out that they could also conclude from this that they don't actually need Spider-Man in their movies to be successful, and will be more open to letting the MCU keep him.

If there are defenders, that sounds more like Broken Base. Cut? Since IB is by definition complaining, why's it worth keeping if it doesn't fit a complaint sub-trope like Unfortunate Implications and Overshadowed by Controversy?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Dec 5th 2018 at 3:05:09 AM

Dec 5th 2018 at 4:05:41 PM

[up] The Persona examples are definite misuse. Designated Hero is not any hero that isn't 100% flawless, it's when the audience feels that a hero is not heroic at all. I don't remember Persona 3: The Answer very well, but IIRC Yukari and Mitsuru are portrayed as being in the wrong in that scenario (since you have to fight them in a boss battle), and they apologize for their actions afterwards. In Persona 4, we have teens being teens vs. a serial killer... the heroes are pretty clear-cut there. In Persona 5, the morality of using brainwashing is actually explored by the narrative (the answer it gives you is that the bad guys are so evil that any harm you might do by brainwashing them is outweighed by the harm they're currently doing and will continue to do).

Dec 5th 2018 at 4:14:05 PM

I don't think these YMMV.The Good Place examples qualify but want to get second opinions, as they are discussed in-story; the first example doesn't seem like an example at all and Chidi saw what he was doing to others but refused to change, while Tahani knew why she was doing what she did and didn't change, in the second example Chidi told a white lie out of social niceties, which was stated in-show, but obsessed over it and revealing the truth after committing to the lie hurt his friend more than letting it go or telling him straight-out, and the third example is mentioned in-universe as described in the example, but also isn't set in stone as the season and show is not over yet—for all we know they do fix the system.

Also they're kinda written poorly.

  • Family-Unfriendly Aesop: Quite a few pop up:
    • Good intentions and good actions have to go in hand in hand; one without the other is pretty useless in life if you are trying to do good. Chidi ends up in the bad place because his good intentions lead to the people he loves getting hurt, including his best friend. Tahani ends up there because her good actions and philanthropy were meant to impress her Abusive Parents and one up her sister Kamilah.
    • A lie isn't an immoral action if it's to make a person feel better. In fact, telling the truth can cause more harm. Chidi finds this out the hard way when he confesses to a colleague, after the latter came out of surgery, that he didn't like the latter's boots, and the colleague miserably says, "This is why no one likes moral philosophy professors."
    • Morality systems by default are arbitrary and flawed, because they are based on judging by subjective standards of "good" and "bad". Chidi in fact points this out with the trolley problem: there is no right answer to deciding whose lives you will save, because participating in the trolley problem means you're accepting a system willing to sacrifice at least one innocent. While Eleanor is fine with learning ethics because they are about principles that govern behavior, she and her friends can't fix the system that sends decent if flawed people to the Bad Place because the morality is, as Michael and Janet realize, forked up.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Dec 5th 2018 at 4:15:28 AM

sgamer82 from Meridian, ID
Dec 5th 2018 at 4:57:37 PM

I added this to Wooden Katanas Are Even Better, but on looking at the trope again, I'm realizing it may not be an example. I think it's a mix of overzealous troping (I just made the work page) and running on the misconception that the trope was the weapon being given special prominence, but I thought I'd pop it in here for a second opinion, just in case there might yet be something tropeable.

  • In Torako, Anmari Kowashicha Dame da yo, Suzume's most prized possession is a wooden sword she purchased with her savings. She talks it up a great deal, naming it the demon blade Muramasa, but neither it nor she have any special qualities. When she fights Torako, the battle consists solely of Suzume whacking her with her sword until she either gets too tired and has to rest or the sword breaks on Torako's Super Toughness. When the latter happens, Suzume starts bawling.

Maybe a subversion? It's certainly presented as the trope, with how the bokken is talked up, but it's ineffectual and Played for Laughs.

Edited by sgamer82 on Dec 5th 2018 at 6:04:52 AM

Plus, remember how in Eragon everyone cries "a single tear"? Yeah, just try that with One Piece and see if it works
gjjones Musician/Composer from Amherst, New York
Dec 5th 2018 at 6:15:56 PM

I'm thinking about adding the following Role-Ending Misdemeanor example:

  • During a game between the Indiana Pacers and Detroit Pistons on November 19, 2004, Ben Wallace went up for a layup, but was fouled by Ron Artest; a small scuffle ensued between the teams. However, spectator John Green threw a cup at Artest, prompting him to instigate a brawl with the teams and the fans. The incident was caught on national television, and Artest was suspended for the remainder of the NBA season. His fellow teammate, Stephen Jackson, was suspended for 30 games. Wallace and his teammate, Jermaine O'Neal, were also suspended for 15 and 6 games, respectively.


No matter who you are, always be yourself.
AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Dec 5th 2018 at 7:35:16 PM

[up]No. It's about ending their entire career, not just a few games.

Check out my fanfiction!
miraculous The Wizard from south africa
The Wizard
Dec 6th 2018 at 1:44:03 AM

Does a fandom wikia blogger count as a legitimate source for Unfortunate Implications as one is being used for 'Ready Player One (2018)

"They could kill me, but they couldn't have me. I was my own"
Dec 6th 2018 at 2:50:25 AM

[up]No since iys not reliable.

Gacha Is A Lie.

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