Is this an example?

I'd say No. "Angel of Light" is not commonly used to denote the Devil. One of Satan's traditional names is "Lucifer", which translates to "Light-bringer", but the actual English translation is rarely used for him.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Okay, thanks.

I take it the answer to this is "We're not sure, still debating"?

New question: Does punctuated equilibrium count as Truth in Television for Evolutionary Stasis, and thus any examples of it (such as Gerrothorax pulcherrimus^note Fossil record extends over 35 million years with few morphologic differences, speculated to be the result of high tolerance to different environments.) are real-life examples of the trope?

edited 2nd Jul '17 5:46:02 AM by MarqFJA

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On the former, I think it's still a proper example, maybe downplayed. The trope doesn't absolutely require that the hunger is completely irreversible. The hunger is still there. They can take actions, possibly detrimental to themselves, to remove it, but they can't just ignore it.

On the latter, I'm not really sure. It depends on how the theory includes lesser changes. It states branches happens with significant changes, with little change for most of the time. Little is not no change at all, though. The trope describes a complete stasis (unless it affects the plot, but then it wouldn't be an example anymore), with not even smaller changes.

However, it's not a specific example. It's just, "Evolution works like this according to this theory if you isolate species over a certain, limited time." Stories have a set time to compare to when they're written, while history is one continuum. And history includes evolutionary changes in or between species.

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Good point. They indeed can't ignore it, even though the solution that would rid them of it more or less permanently (that is to say, they'd be no more doomed by Slaanesh than their non-Dark brethren are) is far from difficult.

The theory does describe cases where no "evolutionary change" is observed for unusually long times in a given species' life history, though; the state of those cases is called "stasis", and the phrasing "little change" is probably for the sake of avoiding the trap of subjectivity- and pedantry-driven arguments over definition (that is, what's "no change" to one scientist can be "little change" for another, and vice versa; I'd personally use "little to no change" for more inclusivity and clarity, though).

Consider the example I had cited, for one; it's explicitly described as "an extreme example of evolutionary stasis" (hyperlink is in the source) due to how the fossil record for the species extends over 35 million years^note That's an unusually long time for a single species to last in its lineage's evolutionary history, from what I gathered; typically, evolutionary stability of a species only lasts for a few hundred thousand years at most..

That said, it's better to say that it's not the theory itself that is a real-life example of Evolutionary Stasis, but rather that the trope describes one part of the theory (the stasis mechanism).

... I don't quite follow what you're trying to say here. The trope's definition is basically that the story is set so far into the future (exact phrasing is "set millions or billions of years in the future"), one would expect that the descendants of modern humanity would look markedly different due to genetic drift and random mutation even in the absence of evolutionary pressure-induced natural selection, yet in the story they look/are described to be indistinguishable from their ancient ancestors (i.e. us).

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I might've misread your post about the example. Or maybe it's the trope I've got a problem with, as it builds on an assumption that's speculation. Worldbuilding isn't anything you find in real life. Neither is delberate relatability. Take those away, and you're left with something that just doesn't happen.

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Goodnight. Is it possible to consider a work where the author brings to the absurd as many tropes of the genre as he can, as a Deconstructor Fleet? The trope page has too many examples, but as I understand it, is not enough just a deliberate Cliché Storm for laugh.

edited 2nd Jul '17 1:50:28 PM by LittleBuster

... OK, not an answer to your question, but you do realize that "Goodnight" is the nighttime-specific version of the more general "Goodbye" rather than a nighttime greeting, right? I think you want "Good evening" instead.

I don't see where you're getting that it "builds on an assumption that's speculation." Even before I read the trope's article and the Wikipedia article, my understanding of the theory of evolution was such that the very idea of stasis (i.e. a species not undergoing notable changes in its phenotype over a geologically long period of time) was completely foreign to me outside of living fossils, which themselves I've discovered in recent years to a subversion as they only look like they're in evolutionary stasis when it's not the case at all (now there's another example, this time of the Subverted Trope case). I would be surprised if Joe Average's understanding of evolution would be much different from that.

... Once again, I don't see where you're getting that Worldbuilding is involved in the trope. Or "deliberate relatability", whatever you mean by that.

edited 2nd Jul '17 2:10:21 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Oh, English is not my native language, so I'm not strong in such aspects.

Does The LEGO Ninjago Movie having more racially diverse voice actors than the Ninjago TV show fall under Race Lift, Colorblind Casting, or something else? Since most of the character designs still look minifigure yellow, unlike Batman characters race-lifted for The Lego Batman Movie, I initially ruled out the former, but the latter doesn't have any examples or wicks related to animation.

edited 2nd Jul '17 11:53:51 PM by dsneybuf

I got it from the description of the trope.

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Bumping this post.

To reiterate, the question is how related works have to be considerable viable for Darker and Edgier. Personally I think that the fact the director of one is the producer of the other, along with some shout outs does not make them related enough to count. Fighteer agreed, Memers clarified and mentioned more shout outs in the marketing which I assume means that they disagree.

edited 3rd Jul '17 5:59:15 AM by Larkmarn

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It's a different work, so you can't assume the same tone. Trying to cash in on what it takes inspiration from doesn't really change that. It's not a Tone Shift if it's not even in the same franchise. It's just comparing the tone of two different works.

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On Colorblind Casting in animation, I don't think there can be (possibly in the choice of a voice actor, if the work uses one with a noticeable and distinct accent that isn't used in the original work) because what color the animators make a character is a choice that is not limited by who auditioned or is available for the role.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Anyone Can Die says that "Anyone Can Die is where no one is exempt from being killed, including pets, children, the elderly, even the main characters (maybe even the hero!)" In that case, does Rogue One count as an example, considering many characters (from Darth Vader to Ponda Baba) are Saved by Canon and thus cannot die?

That's a great question but as far as I know, there's no hard-set rule on that. If I'm correct, I think that'd be more appropriate to have its own discussion thread in Trope Talk than in this thread to figure that out.

Of course if someone chimes in that it's been resolved, well, never mind.

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Does Base on Wheels cover non-militarized mobile settlements? Specifically, I'm asking about this example:

• A non-militarized example in the Interactive Fiction 80 Days with the entire city of Agra. Basically, imagine the Taj Mahal and its surrounding environs on several massive steampunkish legs periodically walking throughout India. It's even mentioned that the political status of the city is being contested, as the Brits claim that it's part of The Raj, while the rest of the peninsula claims that, since Agra sometimes wanders into their territory, it can't be a British holding. In-game, it actually counts as a mode of transportation on one particular route. On the top, you have the gardens and the majesty of the Taj Mahal. Below decks, you have the steaming and clanging underbelly where thousands of multicultural workers live and work, ensuring the safe operation of the walking city (naturally, lots of big levers and valves).

~Another Duck [1]: OK, let me rephrase my question then: How did you get that impression from the description? Because either I genuinely missed it when I read it myself, or you're misinterpreting/misreading something in it.

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Is this example from Doctor Who S5 E1 "The Tomb of the Cybermen" being used correctly?:

• Seinfeld Is Unfunny: This is a textbook example made all the more interesting because it was, for almost 25 years, a Lost Episode. It was one of the many victims of the great BBC purges in the 1960s. During the time it was lost, it achieved a legendary status among the Doctor Who fandom, being hyped up as the holy grail of '60s Doctor Who, a masterpiece that was tragically destroyed. In one of the most surprising finds in the history of the series, in 1991, a complete copy of the serial containing all four episodes was found in Hong Kong. Immediately, the BBC rushed a VHS release of the serial... which was promptly thrashed by critics. They found it too slow, methodical, and contemplative, with cheesy acting and not nearly enough action... which was the norm for '60s science fiction. It also didn't help that a lot of the racial politics within the serial, while perhaps unremarkable for the mid-'60s, hadn't aged well either.

Nope, that's an odd example of Hype Backlash

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Third paragraph is all about it. If those aren't relevant to the trope, we might as well delete the paragraph.

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Would Translation: "Yes" fit the Brainfuck programming languages, because its programs, when translated to a conventional programming language, are possibly much shorter?

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576

Considering how often this trivia/trope has been misused, could I get some confirmation as to whether the following examples are being used correctly?:

Mark Millar:

• Unintentional Period Piece: Due to Millar's habit of making references to then-popular topics (from celebrities to politics), a lot of his work ends up being dated. Rather than use an Expy like other comics would, The Ultimates make it very clear that George W. Bush is the President and Freddie Prinze Jr. was still popular enough to be considered for playing Captain America in an In-Universe Ultimates film.

The Ultimates:

• Unintentional Period Piece: The comic makes it very clear that George W. Bush is the President of the United States. Along with commentary on the War on Terror, various talk shows having characters make appearances on them, and references to celebrities who were popular at the time (like Freddie Prinze Jr.), the first two Mark Millar penned volumes are unmistakenly set in the 2000s.

Those are both correct. They are period pieces now because they are so firmly set in the time they were made that it's difficult to see them as anything else.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Is this example on Natalie Portman being used correctly?:

• Genius Bonus: She's obliquely referenced in The Social Network, as a lawyer lists several of the types of people who were also attending Harvard at the time Mark Zuckerberg invented Facebook, ending with a movie star. Another lawyer asks who the movie star was, but doesn't get an answer.