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Do you have trouble remembering the difference between Deathbringer the Adorable and Fluffy the Terrible?

Do you have trouble recognizing when you've written a Zero-Context Example?

Not sure if you really have a Badass Bookworm or just a guy who likes to read?

Well, this is the thread for you. We're here to help you will all the finer points of example writing. If you have any questions, we can answer them. Don't be afraid. We don't bite. We all just want to make the wiki a better place for everyone.


Useful Tips:

  • Make sure that the example makes sense to both people who don't know the work AND don't know the trope.
    • Wrong: The Mentor: Kevin is this to Bob in the first episode.
    • Right: The Mentor: Kevin takes Bob under his wing in the first episode and teaches him the ropes of being a were-chinchilla.
  • Never just put the trope title and leave it at that.
    • Wrong: Badass Adorable
    • Right: Badass Adorable: Xavier, the group's cute little mascot, defeats three raging elephants with both hands tied behind his back using only an uncooked spaghetti noodle.
  • When is normally far less important than How.
    • Wrong: Big Bad: Of the first season.
    • Right: Big Bad: The heroes have to defeat the Mushroom Man lest the entirety of Candy Land's caramel supply be turned into fungus.
  • A character name is not an explanation.


Other Resources:


For best results, please include why you think an example is iffy in your first post.

Also, many oft-misused tropes/topics have their own threads, such as Surprisingly Realistic Outcome (here) and Fan-Preferred Couple (here). Tropers are better able to give feedback on examples you bring up to specific threads. We don't discuss Complete Monster or Magnificent Bastard examples; please don't bring them up.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Jul 17th 2025 at 8:59:01 PM

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#29301: Sep 9th 2023 at 4:15:00 PM

Yeah, the entry's wrong about there being tons of examples. The trope is looking for the heroes needing to achieve something that requires them to do something unheroic for that to happen, and then being spared from having to do the unheroic deed by the villains doing it for them. I can't think of any example in the show where that has occurred. The rare occasions that might count occur at the end of Volume 6 (two heroes kill the villain because it was them or him) and at the end of Volume 8, where a hero kills another hero to prevent the villains from obtaining her magical power, so the heroes are willing to do the unheroic on those specific occasions.

I suppose one possibility might be the climax of Volume 5, where the heroes have to protect the Artifact of Power but really don't have the training and experience to match the villains. Fortunately, the wild-card antagonist Raven has her own plans that disrupts the villains, effectively giving the heroes the chance to win. She and The Heavy battle it out for the artifact and Raven wins. By the time Yang gets to the artifact's chamber, only Raven is there. Since Raven is her mother, she's able to crack Raven's facade enough for Raven to abandon the artifact and leave it in Yang's hands. So, the heroes win something they otherwise couldn't have won, but only due to a third-party antagonist who played along with the villains just long enough to betray them — not for the heroes' sake, but it benefited the heroes in the end.

The problem comes from the requirement for the heroes to do something unheroic if the villains don't do it for them... one hero turns up with the full-force of the local police to back her up, seeking to arrest any villain they can get their hands on. At that point, the rest of the heroes also have a history of arresting villains rather than killing them. So, the part of the trope where the heroes need to do something unheroic to win doesn't really exist.

So, I don't know if that would count for the trope, but it's the closest thing I can think of to an example.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 9th 2023 at 12:35:46 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#29302: Sep 9th 2023 at 5:56:28 PM

Your second para does match the convenience of the villain coming to do the unheroic thing that helps solve the hero's problem, so I guess that one example fits, and the "majority of the villains" claim and exceptions should be removed.

randomtroper89 from The Fire Nation Since: Nov, 2010
#29303: Sep 9th 2023 at 10:09:55 PM

JerkassHasAPoint.Live Action TV:

  • Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
    • In Episode 5, "Girl in the Flower Dress", Miles makes excellent points about SHIELD being a totalitarian behemoth that needs to be brought into the public eye: regardless of what else you can say about SHIELD, at the end of the day, it amounts to Nick Fury running an all-in-one private armed forces, espionage agency, and business that answers solely to him. We've seen them break into people's houses, businesses, and countries, and cart off various pieces of property, make warrantless arrests, and generally blow shit up, simply because they can. They seem to have jurisdiction over the entire world, even though pretty much every country in the world, the US included, are set up with governments and laws that specifically forbid an organization like SHIELD from having ANY jurisdiction on their soil. In the end, Fury does run SHIELD for the good of the world, and generally only steps in when nothing else works, but that's more Fury's own benevolence than any oversight or organizational responsibility. The fact that the entire US, and possibly the entire world, is under a 1 man defacto dictatorship, even if that one man is currently benevolent, should spook people about as much as alien invasion. Keep in mind that this happens around the time that Captain America: The Winter Soldier happens, as proof of the problem with SHIELD's secrecy HYDRA has infiltrated SHIELD, they almost get away with it because a) SHIELD is subject to oversight by no one, and b) SHIELD is basically everything HYDRA wishes it could be, minus the jackboots, goosestepping, and swastikas...by HYDRA's own admission. Yet Miles is made to be the bad guy several sentences later when it's revealed that he has started hacking for profit.
    • Another episode has Coulson trying to appeal to an enemy scientist about how dangerous his experiments are, only for said scientist to throw the point back at him the very valid point that SHIELD has pulled similar boner stunts in the past that nearly destroyed the world. Coulson can only concede the point:
      Dr. Hall: SHIELD?! SHIELD. is just as guilty of the same thing! Experimentation without thought of consequence! Your search for an unlimited power source brought an alien invasion!
      Coulson: ...Fair point.
    • Similarly, when Lance points out an Inhuman's motivation for turning from a normal museum employee to a criminal was simply because she had powers now, he gets some angry glares from everyone in the room, particularly his two Inhuman allies. He counters and he points out how they've seen it happen before and all of them admit he's not wrong.
      Hunter: What? Andrew was a lovely head shrinker before he turned into a not so lovely Inhuman serial killer.
      Mack: Point made.
      Daisy: Fair enough.
      Joey: (Nods)

The first example seems unintentional, unlike the second two which are acknowledged in universe:

Edited by randomtroper89 on Sep 10th 2023 at 2:16:46 PM

Ayumi-chan 3rd happiest man in Connecticut from Iacon City (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
3rd happiest man in Connecticut
#29304: Sep 10th 2023 at 2:49:33 AM

Found this on YMMV.Utawarerumono Mask Of Deception

  • Contested Sequel: The game averts this, but the anime got a lot of heat for not being able to stand out on its own as an adaptation unlike its more popular predecessor.

First, there's a playing with a YMMV trope which is a big red flag. Second, it's a borderline ZCE. Since that anime adaptation is the sequel to first one, I feel like it might be salvaged.

Any other thoughts?

She/Her | Currently cleaning: N/A
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#29305: Sep 10th 2023 at 4:09:57 AM

Reposting from a couple of days ago.

Is Planet Terra limited to using "Terra" and its cognates in place of "Earth" as our planet's name, or does using equivalent of the word "earth" from other real-life languages (including conlangs), or even a conlang word that - while technically having a different meaning - looks too similar to "earth" or its close cognates to be mere coincidence?

For example, Tolkien's Legendarium's "Middle-earth" setting is explicitly stated by Tolkien to be a fictional prehistoric version of our Earth, and within said legendarium's scope, the planet is named "Arda"; while the given meaning for the name in its conlang of origin is "Realm", it's suspiciously close to Dutch aarde, German Erde, and Old High German erda, all of which mean "earth"/"Earth".note 

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#29306: Sep 10th 2023 at 9:39:24 AM

[up][up] You could comment it out on the grounds of not enough context.

[up] From what I can tell, that trope is specifically about calling it "Terra" or an etymological derivative. Not anything from the Germanic root.

On YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 5 E 9 Slice Of Life:

  • Accidental Innuendo: Octavia and Vinyl make "beautiful music" together. This involves a lot of longing looks, Octavia undressing, and suggestive smiling between them. It's almost borderline G-Rated Sex.

Accidental Innuendo is meant to be accidental on the writer's part. This whole sequence seems entirely deliberate, as the entry acknowledges. Should it be moved to G-Rated Sex?

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#29307: Sep 10th 2023 at 9:46:54 AM

I remember that sequence, and I don't know if it went to the extent of G-Rated Sex per se (the "undressing" is just like, removing her bowtie), but this was an episode full of fanservice and these two are a really big fandom ship, so there was definitely some intentional subtext.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#29308: Sep 10th 2023 at 10:36:24 AM

How about:

  • G-Rated Sex: Octavia and Vinyl make music together, first as rivals then coming together in harmony, in a sequence where the music climaxes with expressions of joy and Octavia's ribbon falling off.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
BoltDMC Since: May, 2020
#29309: Sep 10th 2023 at 1:42:05 PM

Having trouble deciding which of two options a particular situation should go under.

I currently have this:

“Mittens’s lack of sleep in ‘The Insomniac’ stems from a series of bad dreams that wake her up and upset her.”

under Nightmare Sequence, though it could possibly also go under Plagued by Nightmares. I’m unsure of the latter trope, though, as that seems to cover having the same bad dream repeatedly or is a character-defining trait. I’m not sure it’s this, though. In the story, she is having a series of bad dreams, though not the same one each time, and on further reveal, it stems from something that’s bothering her subconsciously. It’s also the only fic where she has bad dreams.

I’m thinking that leaving this as an example of Nightmare Sequence is the best choice, though am open to changing it if there’s a sufficiently compelling argument.

Thanks!

Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#29310: Sep 10th 2023 at 1:43:44 PM

[up] It's only Nightmare Sequence if the nightmares are shown, though.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
BoltDMC Since: May, 2020
#29311: Sep 10th 2023 at 2:16:06 PM

[up] The story starts with the character waking up from the nightmare, with a detailed description of it immediately following. Three earlier nightmares (all different from each other) are described in detail in the following paragraph.

It’s not clear from the trope description that a blow-by-blow recounting of the dream while it occurs is required, if what I read is the case. Maybe I’m misreading this?

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#29312: Sep 10th 2023 at 2:41:33 PM

Your second para does match the convenience of the villain coming to do the unheroic thing that helps solve the hero's problem, so I guess that one example fits, and the "majority of the villains" claim and exceptions should be removed.

Okay, how about this?

  • Bad Guys Do the Dirty Work: In Volume 5's climax, the heroes and fight villains over the Relic of Knowledge, but the heroes aren't yet as skilled as the villains. They succeed due to a third-party antagonist taking on the strongest villain. Raven sides with the villains only to gain access to the Relic, which she intends to take for her own reasons. She fights Cinder, successfully defeats the Fall Maiden's powers, and leaves her for dead. However, Yang confronts her with a “The Reason You Suck” Speech just as she's about to take the relic, resulting in her abandoning it to the heroes and ensuring their victory.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 10th 2023 at 10:57:52 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#29313: Sep 10th 2023 at 3:37:43 PM

[up][up] If it's described with some detail, I say it counts.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
BoltDMC Since: May, 2020
#29314: Sep 10th 2023 at 5:02:41 PM

[up] Thanks. So I’m right that Plagued by Nightmares isn’t the way to go?

NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
#29316: Sep 10th 2023 at 10:04:09 PM

The Octavia and Vinyl thing sounds more like Does This Remind You of Anything? to me.

Mariofan99 Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#29317: Sep 11th 2023 at 6:04:57 AM

Can a character count as Creator's Pest if a creator dislikes a character in addition to the work? Or does it only count if they dislike the character in spite of liking the work?

For example, Andrew Rannells has expressed a low viewpoint on the Pokémon Franchise as a whole but has expressed particular distaste towards the character of Harley. Rannells hated his time voicing Harley viewing the character as a negative stereotype of LGBT individuals, which stuck out as a big sour point given Rannells is openly gay in real life.

Edited by Mariofan99 on Sep 11th 2023 at 10:11:51 AM

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#29318: Sep 11th 2023 at 6:07:24 AM

[up] I can see an argument for listing both Creator's Pest and Creator Backlash, especially as the reasons for disliking the character differ.

Nothing in Creator's Pest says that the creator must like the work as a whole.

Edited by Mrph1 on Sep 11th 2023 at 2:09:23 PM

NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
#29319: Sep 11th 2023 at 7:53:32 AM

[up][up]I thought Creator's Pest was only about characters that people who made the work dislike.

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#29320: Sep 11th 2023 at 8:00:00 AM

[up] I think a voice actor playing the character qualifies?

NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
#29321: Sep 11th 2023 at 8:06:44 AM

[up]I didn't know that. Sorry.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#29322: Sep 11th 2023 at 1:16:50 PM

Done, thanks for the feedback, Tabs.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#29323: Sep 11th 2023 at 9:57:46 PM

The following entry was added to Characters.Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny ZAFT Force (edit history is here).

  • Shout-Out: Meer's character is this to the Hans Christian Andersen version of The Little Mermaid. (A mermaid is "Meerjungfrau" in German.) The mermaid in the story transformed her appearance completely through a bargain, gave up her voice for her dream, did not regain it, and Did Not Get The Guy she was in love with. Oh, and she ends up losing her life by sacrificing herself instead of the person she cares most about, just like that mermaid. It's even represented in one of the SEED Character Theater picture dramas, with Durandal playing the sea witch who transformed her.

According to the note on the Shout-Out page:

Note that to be this trope, the reference must be unambiguous and reasonably construed as deliberate on the part of the creators. (...) As a general rule of thumb, if the example needs to be couched with Word Cruft like, "seems to be," "bears a resemblance to" or "could possibly be," it's almost certainly not an example.

I brought it up on the Shout-Out cleanup thread in late August, but didn't get a response there. Thoughts on what to do about it?

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#29324: Sep 11th 2023 at 10:04:07 PM

That does sound like it hits the beats of the fairy tale in a very specific and deliberate way, especially the last line including another character in another role in that story. But maybe the example could more clearly explain the parallels using Meer's own story arc.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#29325: Sep 11th 2023 at 10:09:58 PM

Does Meer go through the same sort of arc as the mermaid?


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