Superman VS Batman

They were used by Vandal Savage, and the only reason they didn't work is because other superheroes were able to help out.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else

In the original comics version of that story it was Ra's al Ghul who stole and implemented the plans, by the way.

Of course one has to question why Superman and Batman would ever fight.

I could see Batman sparring with Superman to beef up his martial arts training, seeing as how the Dark Knight actually flipped the Man of Steel. Obviously Superman would have to hold back considerably.

In my mind Superman would win 99.9999999% of the time because there is such a gulf between the two heroes. That's common for Superheros in general with lots of teams that have the Badass Normals on one side and the Physical Gods on the other.

But that doesn't mean writers have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to make Batman and other low-levels heroes like Green Arrow or Blue Beetle useful. Something I thought JLU did very well was to make every hero useful to the current situation by putting them in roles where their powers and abilities fit. You often had the powerful members of the League dealing with the obvious physical threats and the lower-level members completing some essential task. And all of the League were trained in combat and could hold their own against scores of enemies anyway.

And regarding Batman's contingency plans, they seemed to rely on the other Leaguers not rushing to the aid of their teammates. It's hard to believe Batman could pull off all of those plans at the same time to counteract that, seeing as how he would be acting by himself.

Though that makes me wonder if JLU!Bats had a contingency plan to deal with the 60 odd heroes in the League

edited 3rd Jan '14 10:30:43 PM by Mr.Didact

Stand Fast, Stand Strong, Stand Together

I think the fact that he wouldn't be able to take down the whole League is Batman's plan for dealing with a potentially evil future Batman.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

Good lord I hate the jobbing in their bouts. Hell, I hate whenever DC has them square off at all. It's bad writing. Like Loeb writing (hint: Loeb is terrible).

"I don't give a rat's ass about going to hell. I guess it's because I feel like I'm already there." -Mugen

Hey Loeb isn't a terrible writer! That would imply he is or has been a writer at some point in the last ten years.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins

Cracked always delivers.

Except when it doesn't.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else

@canid117

Right I forgot calling Loeb a writer would be an insult to writers. Or hell I'll put it this way: I would rather read every children's book in a Barnes Nobles over the shit he has on sale. Also didn't take me more than a minute to think of selling any comic story arc he's written to a Half Price Books.

"I don't give a rat's ass about going to hell. I guess it's because I feel like I'm already there." -Mugen

Wow, it's like The Long Halloween never happened...

It's a well known fact that Loeb's been stinking up the joint for years now, but it always bugs me when people use recent irritations to invalidate everything a creator has ever done. As steadily horrible as he's gotten year after year now, he still made one or two of the more iconic Batman stories out there.

edited 6th Jan '14 1:19:55 PM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

So, how many times have Clark and Bruce saved each other's butts?

Hey I included a caveat about "last ten years."

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins

@Known Unknown

Can't recall a Loeb book I can be REMOTELY positive about.

Of course the one part about Loeb book you'll enjoy?

When it ends

"I don't give a rat's ass about going to hell. I guess it's because I feel like I'm already there." -Mugen

It's worth remembering that The Long Halloween stole strongly both from other, superior Batman stories (like the Two-Face origin annual) and movies (like The Godfather) to deliver a tale that, even so, ended up with a very lame reveal.

The best you can say about Loeb is he gives his artists great visuals to work with, but the stories behind those visuals... well. And frankly, I can't say anything bad about that young Clark story he wrote shortly after his son's death. I know the boy's demise often is used as a free jail release card for his shortcomings in the Internet, but that story was really moving and you could feel very badly for the man then.

Loeb also wrote Superman For All Seasons which was a really good story loaded with fantastic character moments and a really interesting character study of Superman told from the eyes of his various supporting cast.

Most of his stories are either all style and no substance or just plain terrible but Long Halloween, Dark Victory and For All Seasons were all great stories.

edited 6th Jan '14 8:34:14 PM by ShadowScythe

The Reveal of The Long Halloween was just gawdy. I mean I like Two-face's origin in that story still don't change the massive suck of the killer Holiday's identity.

"I don't give a rat's ass about going to hell. I guess it's because I feel like I'm already there." -Mugen

If Superman wore Batman's costume, we'd have a flying mammal dressed as a flying mammal!

I like Two-face's origin in that story

That'd be because most of it was lifted up from Batman Annual 14, which is overall quite well liked, so that merit isn't really Loeb's. Try reading it sometime.

http://about-faces.livejournal.com/1580.html

Is there any deathtrap that would kill Batman and Superman? Seems like they always get out. What's up with villains and deathtraps?

Why Don't You Just Shoot Him?

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else

Hey, has anyone ever just thought of shooting Superman with kryptonite bullets? With a machinegun that's also made out of kryptonite?

edited 20th Jan '14 7:40:40 PM by kkhohoho

Doctor Who — Long Way Around: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13536044/1/Doctor-Who-Long-Way-Around

What if it's the Martian Manhunter disguised as Superman? It could take care of Batman and Superman switching costumes.

I know, what's with that?

They do have similar powers.

what do you mean I didn't win, I ate more wet t-shirts than anyone else

Deathtraps are the spice of villainy. Sure, you don't always need seasoning, but it just isn't a meal without it.

One of my favorite Penguin/deathtrap moments is during one of the few times Penguin had actually gone straight. Batman sneaks into the Iceberg Lounge to see if he has any information on someone else and gets caught.

So naturally, Penguin suspends him over a pit of man-eating sea lions for old times' sake. After Batman breaks out and claims Penguin is back to his old ways, Penguin just laughs and points out that since everyone present already knew the trap wouldn't work and Batman would escape it doesn't really count.

And then they have a totally civil conversation. The whole thing is so hilariously surreal.

edited 21st Jan '14 1:37:36 AM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

Has Clark Kent(out of costume) and Batman ever worked on a case? Batman and Lois Lane?

Been thinking about this, and I was actually wondering more about why Superman and Batman are so often set to fight by the fans themselves. Why it's so often them and not, say, Superman and Green Lantern or Batman and the Flash. And, bat-god reputation notwithstanding, why it's considered that the Caped Crusader would even have a fighting chance, let alone win against the Blue Boyscout.

For one, I don't think it's a matter of putting the League's only Badass Normal against its Physical God of a leader. It was never their powers that made the dynamic so enduring to begin with. Nor is it just the difference in character that makes them such a balanced double act. But rather, I think it's how that difference is played, that gives ample room for meaningful conflict, with the Night Knight capable of ending up on top.

To elaborate, a lot of The Cape's appeal stems from him being almost indomitable physically, and all but perfect morally. That's how he's presented, at least, and there's nothing partucularly problematic about it... unless anyone happens to disagree with him, in or out of universe, wherein it becomes clear that one simply can't argue with Kryptonians, with a high chance of the complainer revealed to be Evil All Along.

To contrast, while The Cowl's moral stance is just as uncompromising, the fact that it's different from standard heroic fare, coupled with his overall abrasive nature, means that in any confrontation, he'll be the first to tell the alien where to stuff a Kryptonite shard, only without being immediately disproven and dismantled. If anything, his criticism is often shown to be well-based, with the narrative reaching the in my opinion rare for DC conclusion that Both Sides Have a Point.

In short - in terms of power, Batman is among the least likely people to defeat Superman, prep time or not. However, he is probably the only man in DC able to conclusively tell him off. And I think that's the kind of fight fans want to see when they put them against one another - not a heavily-propped showdown of abilities, but a genuine conflict of views, with neither expected to break apart at the end.

edited 24th Feb '14 3:32:03 AM by indiana404