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Why do fantasy books leave me cold when I liked them at 16

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NewGeekPhilosopher Wizard Basement from Sydney, Australia Since: Jul, 2009
Wizard Basement
#1: Nov 17th 2012 at 9:48:28 PM

I don't know what it is lately, every time I try and pick up a fantasy book, that is to say, BOOK, not "MOVIE", as I recently rewatched Army Of Darkness and realised, it's a horror comedy, but it's technically a fantasy movie. And I love Army Of Darkness for reasons that weren't clear to me when I was 16 and thought guys who looked up to Ash as this paragon of masculinity were kind of jerks, whereas now I can't help but see him as one of the great cinematic heroes who actually has more to him than I initially thought.

I was also trying to read Garth N Ix's The Old Kingdom Trilogy and while I enjoyed the original take on the fantasy genre by its not going all Tolkienesque, I found going further into Sabriel that either I tried to read this when I just wasn't in the mood for a fantasy novel at all, or I'm more appreciative of "Real person steps out of the real world, into a fantasy and back again" stories than I realised. Like The Neverending Story movie for example, I kinda want to read the book of this now because I was a sucker for Brave Story, another real boy steps into fantasy land story, and for some reason those annoy me a lot less of late than movies and books that begin and end in fantasy worlds and never leave them.

Am I just getting old, or is the fantasy genre just not working for me as much as it used to? I used to love the crap out of Discworld and Tolkien but now I just feel very, very burnt out on the genre since at this time in my life works that are either realistic literary stories like Junot Diaz's stuff or The Shadow Of The Wind and books about the near future tech society to come just seem like far more pressing concerns on my mind than books where wizards believe that technology is the enemy of magic and the imagination or some crap like that.

What happened to me in the past five years that turned me from a fantasy loving dreamer into I guess a slightly, not complete cynic whose idea of escapism probably would involve more romance and making a name for myself than fighting dragons or epic quests? Did I just get too old for this, or am I being too hasty?

Hell Hasn't Earned My Tears
Lightflame Stick of the Fallen from where you can't find me Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Drowning in your pond, hoping you'll notice me
Stick of the Fallen
#2: Nov 18th 2012 at 7:09:51 AM

Fantasy is my life. Maybe it's just what you've said, you're to cynical for "dragons and quests". Or maybe you just need something to reignite the spark of wonder that you felt so long ago when reading fantasy books.

I hate to sound like an ad, but you should read the Mistborn trilogy by Brandon Sanderson. I highly recommend it to anyone who has ever dreamed of faraway worlds or enjoyed a fantasy book. Your feeling may be brought on by the belief that you've "seen it all", but Mistborn has three completely original metal-based magic systems, any of which would make a boring generic fantasy novel into something fantastic. But Mistborn also has wonderful story that's dark-yet-ominous, turns familiar fantasy cliches on their heads (prophecy, the moral barrier the hero faces, faith, the hero's journey), and features excellent foreshadowing. Instead of typical dragons and elves, we have three wholly original new races: the Steel Inquisitors, the Kandra, and the Koloss, all of which are explored in depth. The only cliche in the entire trilogy is that the villain of book 1 is a Dark Lord, but even that gets examined in such a way that by the end of book 3 the Dark Lord ended up being one of the most complex and interesting characters I've ever seen in fiction.

Also, the concept is: The Chosen One fails to save the world. This is 1000 years later.

Sorry if I sounded like an ad. Mistborn was just the thing I needed when I was losing faith in fantasy, so maybe you need it too.

"Oh great! Let's pile up all the useless cats and hope a tree falls on them!"
UltimatelySubjective Since: Jun, 2011
#3: Nov 18th 2012 at 7:53:22 AM

I can understand your tastes having changed, probably due to the way you interpret stories themselves having shifted, but fantasy is very broad. These days I find myself questioning the length of these novels. They're not as easy to consume as they once were.

And remember that High Fantasy, Heroic Fantasy, Low Fantasy and especially Urban Fantasy can all be quite different (By the way, the page image for Urban fantasy is really cheesy). Then there's some soft Science Fiction and Magic Realism which may appeal to fantasy readers (especially older ones) too.

So be sure that you've checked out all of them, because Tolkienesque High Fantasy isn't all there is to it.

And I kinda agree. I mean, The Old Kingdom isn't terribly immersive really. The Seventh Tower is actually quite a lot more colourful and thus easy to get into. To list off a couple of things I think did better:

  • The Dreamers 'Verse by David Eddings is a kind of lighter and softer battle of gods, if you don't mind a kind of kick-in-the-teeth-but-not-actually-bad ending with well done world building.
  • The Dresden Files does an admirable job of bringing wizards to the 21st century.
  • Of course anything by Neil Gaiman is usually somehow greatly imaginative and yet so familiar. Neverwhere is a great example.
  • And finally Angel Notes definitely deserves a mention for being quite crazy, borderline scifi, post-apocalyptic dark fantasy with personified planets and yet somehow not a bad read. The larger Nasuverse is also deserving of a mention in a fantasy discussion.

If you're old enough to know exactly what you like, you're old enough to make judgements about whether a book is actually good or not, so don't worry. I think when you find something that meets your new tastes, you'll know because it will completely draw you in.

edited 18th Nov '12 7:59:42 AM by UltimatelySubjective

darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#4: Nov 18th 2012 at 8:36:11 AM

I had a similar disilusionment with fantasy a few years ago. I thought I'd seen it all, met every strange creature, saw all the magic, and thought I could see a plot twist 30 pages away.

Then I had a tripple wammy. Deverry, which completely reinvented fantasy into a more realistic but still fun epic where character developement and an intreagueing plot took time to start, but had a mind blowing reward if you're patient. The Silmarillion and the History of Middle Earth where all my my preconceived Tolkien cliches were torn to shreads. I never knew he could get this dark but this beautiful at the same time. And lastly the works of Lord Dunsany which were so unashamedly idealistic I couldn't help but be taken by the atmosphere with just enough bitter to the sweet that didn't lose it's power.

In the end I must conclude that fantasy isn't just about the plot and the well-worn path of High fantasy, but it's always been about the atmosphere and the feeling of visiting strange and amazing worlds

NewGeekPhilosopher Wizard Basement from Sydney, Australia Since: Jul, 2009
Wizard Basement
#5: Nov 18th 2012 at 8:53:30 AM

My main problem is that most fantasy books have a lot of odd names that are hard for my brain to remember, so I'm sort of immersed in a world but pulled out of it when I can't remember what character does what.

I did persevere with The Old Kingdom because it's the only new eBook I've been able to afford lately and I might as well finish it, round about Lirael is where it got interesting for me because it's got this sort of The Legend Of Zelda heroes-distanced-only-by-different-eras-of-history-archetypes going for it just now. It was imaginative in ways I didn't expect and I probably have been away from fantasy for so long that I haven't really grappled with decent plot arcs and character development in fantasy because my first fantasy was Discworld and that can often ruin a lot of the tropes for people. Lirael also has this weirdly relatable "it gets better" sort of subplot where the main character wants to kill herself at 16 because her Seer powers haven't manifested and she feels weird about it and worries the other Clayr will make fun of her. I mean... that's really what I miss about fantasy right there, when it's actually ABOUT something that real people have problems with even if it IS in an obviously fantasy world, like... back when metaphors were actually metaphors for things.

I think the problem is that I used to think I could write epic fantasy but other people appear to be far more able to create the medieval kind of fantasy than I seem to be and I used to think I was very imaginative but nowadays I think my imagination is failing me sometimes in terms of imagining new worlds when most of the fiction I write seems to just reimagine the world I already have.

edited 18th Nov '12 9:06:51 AM by NewGeekPhilosopher

Hell Hasn't Earned My Tears
MrShine Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#6: Nov 18th 2012 at 3:17:00 PM

I stopped reading fantasy at about 16 too, but after about 5 years i got back into it when i found out that the New Weird authors existed. Definitely fantasy, but also definitely not dragons and knights. I try to seek out authors that come at their fantasy in really weird ways like M John Harrison, China Mieville, Tim Powers and Jeff Vandermeer.

Probably not an avenue that would work for you though since it sounds like you want more... humanity in your fantasy? I was more interested in reading stuff that was very creative and creepy with a lot of sociopolitical awareness, rather than relatable characters.

Also, magical realism is fantasy too. Not all fantasy is digging up Tolkien's bones over and over again, just have to find the authors that can move past that.

NewGeekPhilosopher Wizard Basement from Sydney, Australia Since: Jul, 2009
Wizard Basement
#7: Nov 18th 2012 at 4:39:51 PM

[up]

I guess I just need more humanity in it right now, I like Lovecraft and the like but there's a time and a place for that.

And damn it if I'm not a sucker for metaphors that actually mean things.

Hell Hasn't Earned My Tears
UltimatelySubjective Since: Jun, 2011
#8: Nov 18th 2012 at 4:47:55 PM

[up] "Winter is coming."?

With the names, the genericness shouldn't be a problem if all the characters stand out enough. That's something I found out watching anime. You can learn any names if the character is distinct enough. One-Steve Limit violations and similar names could still be challenging though.

Twentington Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Desperate
#9: Nov 18th 2012 at 6:28:57 PM

I just have a hard time getting into anything new, and fantasy's one of the big ones. I love the visuals, and a lot of stories I've been recommended sound so interesting. Yet when I try to read them, my brain outright rebels because it's something "new".

Lightningnettle Nettle Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Nettle
#10: Nov 18th 2012 at 10:18:59 PM

If you want something with some humanity and relatively easy names you can try Patricia Wrede. She writes mostly for the YA market and also has a light touch. She has a series set in an alternate magical Regency period that starts with Sorcery and Cecelia and another more recent series that is set in an alternate American frontier that starts with Thirteenth Child.

Another series that is very different from the usual run of fantasy are Liz William's Detective Inspector Chen books set in a near future fantasy Singapore where the Chinese Heaven and Hell are every bit as real as our world. The first one is Snake Agent. The poor beleaguered Detective must deal with not only the police bureaucracy of our world, but that of hell as well to rescue misplaced ghosts.

If you haven't read Hughart's Bridge of Birds, then you should. Number Ten Ox isn't too hard to remember and neither is Master Li (who has a slight flaw in his character...)

If you like action, then Dresden Files books by Jim Butcher are deservedly popular, and being set in our world have mostly names that are easy to remember, though there does end up being quite a large cast after the sixth or seventh books.

It's also perfectly possible that you've burnt out on one genre and need to let it be for a bit. Even for a long time. I'm nearing fifty and it's still one of my favorite genres, so there are still books for us older people. smile

I admit that I'm quite burnt out on the paranormal romance genre that's flooding the shelves recently; about the only author I read delightedly in that genre right now is Gail Carriger, who has a wry and humorous touch that is not found often enough.

imadinosaur Since: Oct, 2011
#11: Nov 19th 2012 at 4:13:56 AM

If you feel like trying something really different that's still full-on different-world fantasy, you should give A Wizard Of Earthsea a go. It's by Ursual la Guin, and while I generally prefer her sci-fi stuff, it's my favourite fantasy series. You get an impression of a very interesting world, but the main focus is on the characters, and it's oh so good.

If you're bored of children's books like that Garth Nix stuff, you should really give it a try.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#12: Nov 19th 2012 at 8:13:25 PM

Oh yes, Earthsea is incredible. One of my most beloved fantasies, a high focus on characterization with just enough world building to make Earthsea feel real but shrowded in mystery. Though I'd say stop at the end of the trilogy as the last two don't quite reach the charm of the first ones. Still pretty good though.

NewGeekPhilosopher Wizard Basement from Sydney, Australia Since: Jul, 2009
Wizard Basement
#13: Nov 19th 2012 at 8:22:53 PM

Maybe my problem was just not reading enough fiction books in general, and having to ease into it so my empathy for characters that aren't real came back and I started caring about narrative fiction again.

Garth Nix is really improving the more I persevere with it, and I'm definitely getting the sense of wonder back since I forgot where I left it back when I got depressed and ended up reading a bunch of horrendous non-fiction books about World War II to research a novel I was writing so that the historian community wouldn't crucify me for getting actual facts wrong instead of the whole alternate universe where ghosts are real/used as secret agents and superheroes thing.

I have to say, reading fiction more again makes me even have more empathy for movie characters, and usually my eyeballs are drier than Oscar Wilde when I watch sad movies because I can't put myself in Leonardo Di Caprio's shoes when I watch Titanic or something.

Hell Hasn't Earned My Tears
TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#14: Nov 20th 2012 at 6:51:41 AM

Friends don't let friends read the last Dreamers verse book. The first lot are reasonably good examples of fantasy fiction. Not on a par with either the Malloreon or the Tamuli but few books are, I suppose. Passable nonetheless. The last one? Euwgh.

UltimatelySubjective Since: Jun, 2011
#15: Nov 20th 2012 at 7:03:52 AM

I honestly tried to start reading The Malloreon (well to be strictly accurate I started at The Belgariad), but found it really dull. What exactly it's the appeal?

It just seemed like standard fantasy to me.

TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#16: Nov 20th 2012 at 7:29:29 AM

Almost every fantasy trope and the kitchen sink, but they work. They are the literary equivalent of crack as far as I am concerned. Once I had read "Pawn of Prophecy", that was it. Hooked, I was. I then read and enjoyed about ninety odd percent of all of the rest of the books that the Eddings couple ever wrote, either together or separately. I can understand that folks may not like them but I am also the kind of person who doesn't understand why folks like Pratchett's stuff. I think it is basically you either like the Eddings' books, or you don't.

UltimatelySubjective Since: Jun, 2011
#17: Nov 20th 2012 at 7:39:15 AM

It's not that I don't like his books. Those ones just don't work for me. Plus they're really long.

I really didn't mind The Redemption Of Althalus and even the Dreamers Verse always had enough to keep me reading, even through quite flawed and somewhat cliched characters with somehow even more clichéd actions and dialogue.

I'm not even opposed to The Belgariad principle, it just didn't seem to work for my.

Yuanchosaan antic disposition from Australia Since: Jan, 2010
antic disposition
#18: Nov 20th 2012 at 3:09:15 PM

The appeal is the snark and the self-aware characters. The wonderful snark.

"Doctor Who means never having to say you're kidding." - Bocaj
TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#19: Nov 21st 2012 at 5:44:55 PM

[up]Yup. Most of the best series (everything with Sparhawk and Belgarion in them in other words) are full of snark to snark combat. It's also fun trying to match the countries and empires in the books with the real world. For example, Sendaria just HAS to be Belgium.

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