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Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#276: Dec 29th 2012 at 12:55:08 PM

@Anno:

As long as the spells aren't too powerful (and the quick kill thing only counts for mooks), I guess the spells are fine.

However, I'd like to know if there's any defence against the Sealed Box.

Locking you up on radar since '09
AnnoR "Of course, Satsuki-sama." from Honnouji Academy Since: Sep, 2010
"Of course, Satsuki-sama."
#277: Dec 29th 2012 at 12:56:12 PM

It'd only work on mooks, pretty much. And if anyone has enough protection they can probably put out the fire.

Um... I assume by just not being in range, or having some kind of barrier. I don't think it goes too far out of the box, it's only shown once.

"Oh, dear. The toad, the monkey, and the dog have all screwed up."
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#278: Dec 29th 2012 at 1:00:59 PM

Ah, okay. Can someone get out of the Box once they've been sucked inside?

Locking you up on radar since '09
AnnoR "Of course, Satsuki-sama." from Honnouji Academy Since: Sep, 2010
"Of course, Satsuki-sama."
#279: Dec 29th 2012 at 1:05:04 PM

No. The creature immediately starts eating them, even when it's dragging them in.

It's not something she'll use particularly frequently, something has to make her really angry to have her pull out the Sealed Box.

edited 29th Dec '12 1:07:59 PM by AnnoR

"Oh, dear. The toad, the monkey, and the dog have all screwed up."
Vox Since: Dec, 2010
#280: Dec 29th 2012 at 1:27:15 PM

Am I the only one who thinks "Yes it's an attack that can instakill pretty much anyone, but I promise not to use it (much)" isn't a very good justification?

Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#281: Dec 29th 2012 at 1:31:44 PM

Er... right.

I'm fine with mooks being unable to escape it once it's grabbed them, but I'd like PCs/major characters to be able to, say, struggle their way out. I know that it'll probably be used infrequently, if at all (not to mention its' limited range), but I'm not a fan of attacks that cannot be mitigated in some way.

Locking you up on radar since '09
AnnoR "Of course, Satsuki-sama." from Honnouji Academy Since: Sep, 2010
"Of course, Satsuki-sama."
#282: Dec 29th 2012 at 1:32:57 PM

It can be avoided by just staying out of reach. Or moving at all, if you're fast.

... Also, it could kill a powerful magus in the Nasuverse, but anything above that might cause problems for it. It wasn't even assured that it could kill the magus, it was basically said it "might be able to".

Um... also, it's not really more instant-kill then, say, um... cutting off someone's head or something, really, and it can only go after one target at a time.

But... player characters being able to get away is possible, I suppose. I don't think she'd be using it on them at any point unless seriously pushed, though.

edited 29th Dec '12 1:34:20 PM by AnnoR

"Oh, dear. The toad, the monkey, and the dog have all screwed up."
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#283: Dec 29th 2012 at 2:23:53 PM

How strong would you say such a magus is?

Locking you up on radar since '09
AnnoR "Of course, Satsuki-sama." from Honnouji Academy Since: Sep, 2010
"Of course, Satsuki-sama."
#284: Dec 29th 2012 at 2:38:33 PM

... Hmmm...

Do NOT highlight unless you're okay with Kara No Kyoukai spoilers.

The magus in question was Araya Souren, basically the Big Bad of Kara No Kyoukai. He'd integrated his existence into building with all kinds of odd magecraft, and was fast enough to dodge bullets. He could also force people to freeze in his bounded field because his origin was Stillness. He was even able to resist the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception, though Ryougi still killed him in the end by piercing his point of death. He also had the remains of a Buddha embedded in one arm, which allowed him to confuse Ryougi since it was a divine relic... um... thing. His Origin let him make his body unchanging as well, meaning most damage was just reversed. He claims that Touko had a chance of killing him using the familiar in the Sealed Box, but Touko doesn't seem the believe him.

"Oh, dear. The toad, the monkey, and the dog have all screwed up."
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#285: Dec 29th 2012 at 2:40:48 PM

Hm, I see.

Can you give a point of comparison to something relatively well known out of that 'verse? I apologise, it's just that I'm finding it somewhat hard to ascertain. The reason I asked in the first place is to see just how strong (or, for that matter, weak) a character needs to be... "affected" so to speak.

Locking you up on radar since '09
AnnoR "Of course, Satsuki-sama." from Honnouji Academy Since: Sep, 2010
"Of course, Satsuki-sama."
#286: Dec 29th 2012 at 2:42:52 PM

... Hmm... um... well, it's really hard to judge the level of power it actually has, since it only appears in one scene, but... I guess anyone with above-human attributes would have a chance of breaking away from it if it managed to grab them, maybe?

"Oh, dear. The toad, the monkey, and the dog have all screwed up."
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#287: Dec 29th 2012 at 2:52:32 PM

Ah, okay, that sounds relatively reasonable.

Locking you up on radar since '09
AnnoR "Of course, Satsuki-sama." from Honnouji Academy Since: Sep, 2010
"Of course, Satsuki-sama."
#288: Dec 29th 2012 at 2:54:43 PM

Weaker characters can also dodge it if they see it coming just by getting out of range, eh-heh.

"Oh, dear. The toad, the monkey, and the dog have all screwed up."
FirockFinion THE SLORG! from The Red Desert Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
THE SLORG!
#289: Dec 29th 2012 at 3:41:13 PM

You know that staying at range in a fight isn't an option for all the current characters, right? Unless this thing has a long cooldown even after misses, you're basically making a "screw you, I win" button against anyone who has to fight in melee.

edited 29th Dec '12 3:41:30 PM by FirockFinion

You are reading this.
AnnoR "Of course, Satsuki-sama." from Honnouji Academy Since: Sep, 2010
"Of course, Satsuki-sama."
#290: Dec 29th 2012 at 3:43:48 PM

For her to use her Sealed Box, she'd have to be called Dirty Red.

... Well, a bit more to it then that, but I can honestly say she's not going to be using it against basically anyone unless they manage to really, really make her angry.

"Oh, dear. The toad, the monkey, and the dog have all screwed up."
FirockFinion THE SLORG! from The Red Desert Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
THE SLORG!
#291: Dec 29th 2012 at 3:47:08 PM

Yes, you already established that. That has nothing to do with the point I was making.

edited 29th Dec '12 3:47:26 PM by FirockFinion

You are reading this.
AnnoR "Of course, Satsuki-sama." from Honnouji Academy Since: Sep, 2010
"Of course, Satsuki-sama."
#292: Dec 29th 2012 at 3:53:32 PM

Most of the characters who would be in range of it could fight it off.

"Oh, dear. The toad, the monkey, and the dog have all screwed up."
tachikaze from Australia Since: Apr, 2009
#293: Dec 29th 2012 at 3:58:29 PM

Just posting to say that since I've lost basically all the interest in this that I had over a month ago when I put my name down, I'd like to be taken off the waiting list.

Burn up, hurricane of justice!
Psyga315 Since: Jan, 2001
#294: Dec 29th 2012 at 4:01:47 PM

May have to side with Anno here. I mean, what are the chances someone will say "Dirty Red", especially in front of her? If she had to say Dirty Red, then I can see the problems, but it seems to be the opposite.

edited 29th Dec '12 4:02:23 PM by Psyga315

Stratofarius huzzaaaaaaaah Since: Aug, 2011
huzzaaaaaaaah
#295: Dec 29th 2012 at 4:15:53 PM

"Hey man, what's the color of that shirt?"

"What? That one? It's dirty red."

I kid, I kid, although that would be pretty hilarious.

AnnoR "Of course, Satsuki-sama." from Honnouji Academy Since: Sep, 2010
"Of course, Satsuki-sama."
#296: Dec 29th 2012 at 4:17:45 PM

Well, it has to be actually calling her Dirty Red as an insult.

"Oh, dear. The toad, the monkey, and the dog have all screwed up."
FirockFinion THE SLORG! from The Red Desert Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
THE SLORG!
#297: Dec 29th 2012 at 4:18:28 PM

Most of the characters who would be in range of it could fight it off.
That I can live with, I guess.

@Pysga: Again, the likelyhood of the event in question is not really related to the original point I was making.

Besides, we're talking about information that no other character knows. It's not like she goes around broadcasting psychically or wearing a neon sign that says "Don't call me 'dirty red' or I'll have my eldritch abomination eat you." Unless she does and I've somehow terribly misunderstood her character sheet.

Since they don't know not to call her 'dirty red', there's no way for them to avoid doing it. Mainly I just don't like the idea of someone carrying around an item that basically has the description "if it gets a hold of you, you lose, no matter what." But if that's not the case, I can live with it, as I said.

It'd be like if I let Altair bring along The Apple. AKA the "Mind-control almost everyone, and mind-rape the rest" machine.

edited 29th Dec '12 4:19:01 PM by FirockFinion

You are reading this.
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#298: Dec 29th 2012 at 4:20:02 PM

So because people don't know the trigger, it shouldn't be allowed?

I'm going to ignore the fact that The Apple of Eden is a mind control object that can be resisted as well, as Altaïr himself showed.

edited 29th Dec '12 4:30:20 PM by Deadbeatloser22

"Yup. That tasted purple."
FirockFinion THE SLORG! from The Red Desert Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
THE SLORG!
#299: Dec 29th 2012 at 4:35:35 PM

@Deadbeat: No, if it's completely unbeatable it shouldn't be allowed.

"If you say certain words to me in a certain tone of voice, I'll unleash this box-monster thing on you. Once it grabs you, you can't escape and you can't beat it; no matter what you do, it will eat you. Oh, but of course you don't know what the words are that will do this; in fact, you don't even know that this is a possible outcome."

As for the Apple: So far, Altair is pretty much the only person who has; the only other person who visibly resisted it was using his own counter-macguffin. And even then, Altair and the other guy still had to fight off a bunch of visions. That's what I meant by the "mind rape everyone else" part.

edited 29th Dec '12 4:40:14 PM by FirockFinion

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goodisgood BWAH-HA-HA! from from a high horse Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
BWAH-HA-HA!
#300: Dec 29th 2012 at 4:37:33 PM

If I might ask, how big is this creature? Maybe an Idea of its dimensions might help either side's argument. Just my two cents.

To the law and for the good of man. All I need to live by.

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