Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens

Yeah, applying the term "Chosen One" to any character that's the central protagonist doesn't really make sense unless that character's been chosen by some mystical prophecy or whatever.

Disney has come out and said directly that Rey is the Luke / Anakin of this generation of Star Wars. She's The Hero, she has super strong Force power, and she's the one who's going to defeat the evil plot. As to whether there is explicitly a prophecy and an In-Universe Chosen One, that's kind of up in the air.

edited 18th Dec '16 3:23:41 PM by Fighteer

I don't think Lucasfilm/Disney has said explicitly anything like that, but I get what you mean.

Luke is defintiely thematically the Chosen One of the series, and he was undeniably so until Force Awakens came around and revealed that his efforts came to naught. He hits all the actual callsigns of the trope (including literally being chosen onscreen), even more obviously because his plot in the original trilogy is the one most Heroes' Journey based, and he comes off as the figure around which destiny relies. The fact that he's not directly called that (they settle for referring to him as the last hope of the galaxy and all that) doesn't diminish the fact that he's a textbook execution of the trope.

Even Anakin is less of an example, which is imo part of Anakin's charm: Anakin is considered The Chosen One in-universe, but out of universe is a very different kind of character type, with the Chosen One angle, when applied to him, being more of a deconstruction. The pressures of being The Chosen One effectively destroyed him, until he was rebuilt by following his son's example.

You could argue that the Force basically chooses someone every generation, but the last time didn't go so well (the Chosen One angle with Anakin was poorly handled even as a deconstruction, and also lost oomph due us knowing that Luke fills the role already). I can definitely agree that there are great places they can take Rey's character without taking the easy way and tacking a Chosen One narrative onto her.

As for Rey's relatives, I think the fandom judges too much of Rey's worth on who she's related to, and not enough on the character herself. I wouldn't be surprised if the new trilogy ended with her (and the audience) never finding out who her parents are, with only maybe a few hints, and with Rey - in keeping with the big character development moment in Force Awakens - deciding that she doesn't need to know in order to be who she's meant to be.

edited 19th Dec '16 6:17:52 PM by KnownUnknown

Fan theories are equally valid to one another because the series is ongoing, so I don't see the point in arguing plausibility here.

edited 18th Dec '16 4:22:28 PM by VeryMelon

That's just flat out untrue. Certain theories are supported by actual evidence whether it be interviews, foreshadowing in the movies, or thematic connections between the movies. To suggest that Rey being a secret granddaughter of Palpatine has as much validity as her being Luke's daughter is nonsensical.

edited 18th Dec '16 4:29:24 PM by Kostya

.....there is another.

Anyways, Luke never even got close to defeating Palpatine. Darth Vader did. Luke just convinced him to switch sides not because he was some super special chosen one but because he was his son and he saw the good in him when others didn't.

But doing that is what make him to finally step up and fully is destiny. bringing balance to the force.

How he did it is irrelevant. What matter is he stopped them after being pretty much chosen for the task.

And no movie in the OT ever even pretends Leia has a shot at dealing with Palps or Vader. The destruction of the Dark Side lies solely on Luke's shoulder.

edited 18th Dec '16 4:41:16 PM by Gaon

I don't think how Luke did what he did is irrelevant at all, actually. Compare his methodology to what Obi-Wan and Yoda actually wanted him to do and you get why Luke is my favorite character in all of Star Wars.

Well no. The methods behind the destruction of the dark side matters a lot.

Well no. It doesn't. The destruction of the dark side was up to Darth Vader. It was Darth Vader finally fulfilling his destiny.

Luke wasn't the chosen one. He was a catalyst for the chosen one.

We're talking about different things, Mad. I'm saying Luke has the narrative chosen one-ness. He's the last Jedi, he's the last hope, he is the guy responsible for defeating Palpatine and Vader, and even if he does it by appealing to the better angels of Anakin's nature, that's still what he does.

Everything else is irrelevant within the spectrum of this argument. Of course if you look at it from a dramatic in-universe perspective there's meaning to it.

The Chosen One as a trope can reach from you being a contest winner a la The Last Starfighter to a specific prophecy of your existence down to your exact name. Just about any character who is selected In-Universe to perform a certain role, whether it be by The Force or by the Old Master, can be argued to be a Chosen One. The important factor here is some sense of destiny attributed to the individual, something they alone are responsible for.

In that sense, Luke was not quite a Chosen One in ANH, but in ESB and ROTJ it's fairly clear his destiny laid alongside Vader. Yoda and Obi-Wan knew that. The In-Universe Chosen One was still Anakin because he dealt the final blow to Palpatine, but Luke played a role in how those events came about.

Similarly, there isn't a sense that Rey is destined for a specific purpose, but the seeds are definitely planted to reveal her as a torch bearer of some sort.

By that logic though, surely Kylo Ren is also therefore the Chosen One (of the Dark Side) in that he is already confirmed as having those legendary Skywalker genes and has been trained/selected by Snoke to bring about his schemes....

edited 19th Dec '16 11:35:13 AM by jakobitis

Makes sense. A lot about his approach to the Dark Side and the way Snoke treats him lends to that interpretation, that Snoke intends him to be the Chosen One against the Jedi (and Kylo ate it up because Skywalkers are gullible as hell).

Whether the Dark Side is self determining enough to be capable of actually guiding a Chosen One is a different matter (and the fact that Kylo repeatedly asks for help from the Dark Side and evidently receives jack-all without Snoke's direct input may be saying something in that regard), but all that matters in that case is that the Chooser believes it to be so.

Now that I think about it, do we have a False Chosen One trope listed? I feel like we should already.

edited 19th Dec '16 6:15:25 PM by KnownUnknown

The Chosen Zero.

I think a lot of it depends on if Snoke is the one to put the idea of carrying on Vader's legacy in his head, and if it has an actual end game to it. The problem is that "I'll finish what you started" doesn't make a lot of sense because Vader had no goal other than causing pain.

I think a lot of the plot points in TFA would make more sense if it was revealed in 8 that Snoke is using an illusion of Vader to confuse Ren.

I really want The Reveal to be that Snoke isn't a Force User, but is devoted to the dark side nevertheless - seems like characters like that are increasing in number these days - and knows enough about human nature to turn someone who is without literally knowing those ancient practices.

It would work well with the Knights Of Ren appearing to be a totally new thing that aren't specifically related to the Sith.

Vader's goal was "order in the galaxy", fueled by his disgust for the Clone Wars.

That was the only goal he ever had beyond "have lots of Padme sex".

I may or may not be using my analysis of this movie from fifteen-ish months ago as a basis for a two-page shitpost for my next class assignment. >_>

In my defense, critiquing TFA is one of the few things that gets me motivated enough to jam out a dozen paragraphs' worth of hard text, and after how nasty writing my last paper was (it was the first time I'd written a research paper in six years, and by the end of it I was so tired I ended up making the whole thing about sleep deprivation because it was all I could think of), I'll take what I can get when looking for easy subjects.

I do expect to start pulling random bullshit out of my ass at some point during the essay, though. I'm in that state of mind right now.

I didn't know Rey heard Palpatine's screech during the much-debated lightsaber scene. If anything, that adds credence to the "Shmi clone" theory, if you ask me.

Imagine if Rey gets to say "I am your father" to Luke! That'd be a hoot. Probably not appropriate, tonally, but a hoot nonetheless.

She didn't hear Palpatine. It was implied to Snoke telling her to strike Kylo Ren down so she could fall to the Dark Side.

She heard Palpatine screaming during the lightsaber vision sequence. That's what he's alluding to, I assume.

Now all I can think of is The Glove of Darth Vader.

UGH.