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Star Citizen: A PC-Only Space Sim by Chris Roberts

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SgtRicko Since: Jul, 2009
#201: Aug 2nd 2020 at 11:36:52 AM

Star Citizen's again in the news for the wrong reasons. Cloud Imperium Games had to retract their previous roadmap for the Squadron 42 campaign and announce they would not be able to make the end of 2020 deadline previously mentioned. Fair enough given Covid-19, but in addition to that, the developers currently don't even have a solid idea on when they'll be able to create a new roadmap. Seems like they're finding putting out the developers updates to be a more time-consuming task than initially anticipated.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#202: Aug 2nd 2020 at 11:47:51 AM

This game has become such a meme.

Probably finished by 2050.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
MarkVonLewis Since: Jun, 2010
#203: Aug 2nd 2020 at 2:56:32 PM

Sounds like this "game" is the videogame equivalent of either a televangelist scam or a Nigerian Prince scam.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#204: Aug 2nd 2020 at 2:59:44 PM

Kingstarter has become a ground for those type of scams.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#205: Aug 2nd 2020 at 8:21:47 PM

TBF, Kickstarter isn't the only crowdfunding platform out there, nor is it even the one with the shadiest reputation. I personally find Gofundme more troubling given that one seems to be the goto platform for medical crowdfunding scams.

Disgusted, but not surprised
SgtRicko Since: Jul, 2009
#206: Sep 13th 2020 at 2:50:02 AM

Chris Roberts had a lengthy post on the Cloud Imperium forums regarding the state of the game and his vision:

I shared information on where we are, and why you don’t see something you thought you should. Part of my motivation for answering is that I commonly see people assume things that aren’t true like the room system not being in the game because one aspect of the system doesn’t have the behavior that they think it should. I wanted to give you extra context and information so you (and others in this thread) had a better understanding of what is in, what isn’t and why it isn’t and what is left to do.

If you want to encourage me or other developers to answer questions then it helps to not turn around and question people’s professionalism or make sweeping statements. If someone did that to you in your job I am sure it would be irritating. I have a thicker skin than most of the developers at CIG, and realize that not everyone is speaking in their first language or realizes how they phrased things may not have been the best, but in general it is best to approach things with constructive criticism, leaving the ad hominems out. You wouldn’t be putting this much time into something if you didn’t care, so why put energy into posting something that a developer will dismiss because it feels like an attack? I can tell you that being considerate of someone and treating them with respect will get you much further than than being dismissive. The development team reads these forums and other places like reddit, and the community’s feedback really helps, but the feedback that gets actioned on, that gets passed around internally and is discussed is the constructive type, not the overly negative type. Just saying something sucks isn’t helpful. Explaining why it sucks for that user, and their ideas to potentially rectify it is helpful.

My biggest disappointment with modern internet discourse is that there’s a significant amount of cynicism, especially in forum or reddit debates, and a portion of people assume the worst. If a feature is missing, late or buggy it’s because the company or the developer lied and or / is incompetent as opposed to the fact that it just took longer and had more problems than the team thought it would when they originally set out to build it. Developers by their very nature are optimistic. You have to be to build things that haven’t ever been built before. Otherwise the sheer weight of what is needed to be done can crush you. But being optimistic or not foreseeing issues isn’t the same as lying or deliberately misleading people. Everyone at CIG is incredibly passionate about making Star Citizen the most immersive massively multiplayer first person universe sandbox, and everyone works very hard to deliver that. If we could deliver harder, faster, better we would. We get just as frustrated with the time things take. We practice bottom up task estimation where the team implementing the feature breaks it down and gives their estimates of how long it will take them. Management doesn’t dictate timelines, we just set priorities for the teams as there are always a lot more things to do at any one time than we have people to do them. We are constantly reviewing and trying to improve our AGILE development process and how we estimate sprints. As the code, feature and content base grows there is more maintenance and support needed for the existing features and content, which can eat into the time a team has for new feature development, meaning you always have the push and pull of current quality of life in a release versus delivering new features and content. The same push and pull exists in the community as there is a strong desire for polished bug free gameplay now but also new features and content, often from the very same people.

Things like Salvage haven’t been pushed back on a whim, but because in terms of priority we felt that it would premature to work on Salvage before the iCache and physical damage system is implemented in the game as this fundamentally changes how we manage state, handle damage and debris. So when presented with a priority call to make on resource allocation we deprioritized Salvage in order to build the infrastructure to really make it sing, as opposed to working on a system we will have to refactor when the iCache and new damage system came on line.

We have also decided we wanted to invest more time into the quality of life, performance and stability in Star Citizen as it is actively played every day by tens of thousands of people; on normal days we have an average of over 30,000 different people playing and at the peak during events this year we’ve hit 100,000 unique accounts playing in one day which is pretty impressive for a game in an early Alpha state. We are on track to have over one million unique players this year. Star Citizen already has the main gameloops of a space sim; cargo hauling, commodity trading, mercenary, pirate, bounty hunting and mining. Just spending time refining and finishing out these would make Star Citizen with all it’s detail and fidelity more engrossing than any “finished” space sim you can play today.

We’ve shown a preview of the new roadmap format that we are working on. Part of the motivation for changing how we share the tasks we are working on and their progress is so the community can get better visibility into the hard choices that we face everyday on the project and see what exactly every team is working on as opposed to just the few tasks we feel comfortable sharing because we think have a high probability to make that quarter. When we make a priority call and move up or add a task there is always something that needs to be pushed back. The new format which tracks our 58 feature and content teams that work on Star Citizen and Squadron 42, will be able to show what each team is working on and if a new initiative like improving the cargo hauling experience gets added you’ll see the tasks that get pushed back on the teams that will work on this new initiative. As a point of data these teams can be anywhere from 4 people to over 20 people and of the 58 teams only 11 are exclusively dedicated to Squadron 42 and 12 for Star Citizen and the rest are shared (things like graphics, engine, actor, vehicle, AI, VFX, sound and so on), although a lot of the priorities for things like actor, vehicle and AI are driven by what Squadron needs.

Switching the roadmap format was something that I made a priority for us at the start of the year when it was clear that the current roadmap format wasn’t helping, especially as the teams really didn’t want to commit until absolutely definitely their feature would make it, which you’ll normally only know about six weeks before release, due to the vitriol they would see when a task was pushed back, despite our best efforts to get everyone that looks at the current Road Map to read and acknowledge the caveats which explicitly say some of the tasks are likely to slip. Getting tired of this I felt it would be best for the community to see the same view I and the rest of the senior development management see on Star Citizen and Squadron 42. This won’t stop people from disagreeing with our priority calls or how long something takes, but at least it will share the overall picture and people can see exactly what everyone is working on at any moment and how long it is projected to take. They will be able to see it change when it does for us and hopefully appreciate how many people are working really hard to make Star Citizen a game like no other. One of the reasons the new Road Map is taking time because we’re building a system that visualizes all this as a top level directly from our JIRA database. We plan to use a more verbose version of the public roadmap for our internal sprint scheduling, so the data you see will be a sanitized version of what we see (we won’t share individual developer names and assignments publically for obvious reasons but internally we will see this).

I sense from your reply to me that it’s the time taken and priorities that you’re frustrated with, as you feel like we’re focusing on the wrong things. I can see that point of view, but you’re looking at it from the outside without the full knowledge of exactly what it will take, and the order it needs to be done in to deliver the gameplay that will set Star Citizen above everything else. This is the game I’ve dreamed of my whole life. Now I am in a position to realize it, I am not willing to compromise it’s potential because it is taking longer than I originally envisioned. What I will commit to, and what is an internal priority is to improve the current gameplay and quality of life as we go, as Star Citizen is already fun in many ways, even if more buggy and not as stable as I would like, and just finishing off and polishing the basics will make it play as well or better than most other games.

I can promise you the gameplay I described is not a pipe dream, nor will it take 10 to 20 years to deliver. I described systems we either have working, or are working on; we’ve even shown early versions of some of this like fire on Inside Star Citizen. I can’t promise you exactly what quarter it will come together but once the new Road Map web work is done you’ll be able to see the teams progress to achieving what I describe in real time.

Thank you for your support and passion over the years. I hope this extra insight was helpful.

Edited by SgtRicko on Sep 13th 2020 at 7:58:40 PM

SgtRicko Since: Jul, 2009
#207: Mar 14th 2021 at 10:50:40 PM

To summarize the two above videos, the Templin Institute found the government of the UEE generic and a bit too on the nose with their Roman empire comparison. They also believe it's usually a better idea to be vague regarding the government and just let the fandom fill in the blanks - a bit weird, especially given Templin's entire raison d'etre is to find as much details as possible regarding the social and political backstories of various species, organizations, empires, etc.

Another complaint in their video focused on why hasn't technology advanced further than depicted despite the game taking place around the 2900s. I have to disagree with them on that, and for a reason they themselves mentioned in the video. Technology tends to increase usually on an S-curve, with certain groundbreaking tech leading to other major technological advancements all around, followed by lulls. The universe of Star Citizen is probably in a lull right now, especially given the lore video itself states the UEE's growth has been stymied in recent years. It's also possible that the empire's size might be a major reason - it's harder for scientific advancements to propagate throughout society if it takes time to travel or communicate from one point to another.

Edited by SgtRicko on Mar 15th 2021 at 10:07:20 PM

SgtRicko Since: Jul, 2009
#208: May 23rd 2021 at 12:07:42 PM

So we've got a tank and heavy transport starship now:

Strangely enough they haven't implemented an armor/module system for the tank, despite starships already having that, so the result is the tanks are rather fragile.

Midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#209: May 23rd 2021 at 1:32:05 PM

Look, give them another 200 million dollars and a 2 year roadmap for the tank armor.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#210: May 23rd 2021 at 1:55:14 PM

I am genuinely impressed that this trainwreck keeps going.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#211: May 23rd 2021 at 2:30:10 PM

I mean when you got a good grift going why end it.

Reflextion from a post-sanity world (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
#212: May 23rd 2021 at 3:17:45 PM

Fools and their money

Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.
SgtRicko Since: Jul, 2009
#213: Feb 3rd 2022 at 6:57:09 AM

Roadmap Roundup: February 2022

Star Citizen is indefinitely cancelling their Roadmap Roundup, along with the monthly reports... again.

And as of today, $433,747,685 USD in total has been pledged since 2013.

It's only a matter of time before Roberts finds a way to add NF Ts into the game, isn't it? Because his fans have already proven to have FAR more money then common sense, that's for sure.

Edited by SgtRicko on Feb 3rd 2022 at 6:57:46 AM

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#214: Feb 3rd 2022 at 7:04:02 AM

[up][up] Welp

Just Makima.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#215: Feb 3rd 2022 at 7:10:25 AM

[up][up]Oh they will definitely end up selling NFT's of ships before long.

Over $400 million? For a fucking videogame? That isn't even close to finished?

Fuck.

Edited by M84 on Feb 3rd 2022 at 11:11:49 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#216: Feb 3rd 2022 at 7:28:07 AM

The whole thing with the monthly reports, I think they were pretty much showing off what the big core problem with the game was, especially with Squadron 42. Their priorities are insane. "Oh, we needed to revamp the cutscenes because they're now seamlessly taking place in the same space as the missions with rendered persistent spaceship interiors."

And it's like...okay, so why? That sounds like a ridiculous amount of work and a heavily increased load on any computers and the end benefit is...nothing that will be at all discernable from the player point of view, it's just a lot of extra busy-work for no apparent reason. And it's all like that. So many random decisions that make for interesting technical challenges and sound cool until you realize there's no meaningful impact. And what makes it really sad (on some level) is that Chris Roberts has actually always been like that. Privateer 1 had really severe hardware restrictions that kept him restrained, EA stepped in for Privateer 2 and forced him to wrap it up and release it because he was fixating on the story and endlessly dragging out the gameplay element (which is why the gameplay is so janky in that one), and Microsoft forced him to wrap up Freelancer and release it (which is why the post-game open world is so empty) because he kept trying to do feature creep there too.

Edited by Zendervai on Feb 3rd 2022 at 10:28:35 AM

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#217: Feb 3rd 2022 at 6:07:51 PM

How did he manage to get a game where he had no oversight? It's been a while, so I can't remember how this all started. Did he just throw up a Kickstarter saying "if you guys give me money I won't have to worry about executives rushing me and make a perfect game"?

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#218: Feb 3rd 2022 at 6:08:44 PM

Basically yes

To the defense of the kickstarter backers, Kickstarter was new and 2012 was when all the big old names of Video Games flocked to it (Tim Schafer also had his massive kickstarter that year), and Chris Roberts had a purely good rep at the time. So they can be forgiven for falling in.

Everyone after this till today who keeps donating is an idiot however.

Edited by Ghilz on Feb 3rd 2022 at 6:12:34 AM

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#219: Feb 3rd 2022 at 6:14:50 PM

Yeah. Roberts also didn't manage to build the reputation Peter Molyneux (Black and White/Fable/Godus) did.

Roberts generally didn't talk about the stuff he couldn't implement until after a game had been released, he didn't really make a habit of promising impossible things at the start. The closest thing was wanting to make Freelancer an online game which got pulled off the table pretty early on.

Edited by Zendervai on Feb 3rd 2022 at 9:15:29 AM

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#220: Feb 3rd 2022 at 6:27:20 PM

Yeah. Roberts also didn't manage to build the reputation Peter Molyneux (Black and White/Fable/Godus) did.

Yet somehow Molyneux convinced 17,184 idiot to give him half a million euro in 2016 on Kickstarter so clearly the human race is doomed.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#221: Feb 3rd 2022 at 7:10:49 PM

That's... an average of thirty euros each. Which isn't really all that much to donate to a developer you like in the hopes of a good game.

How many people have donated to this dumpster fire over the past ten years?

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#222: Feb 3rd 2022 at 7:32:25 PM

a developer you like in the hopes of a good game

Molyneux

2016

Like I said, idiots.

Heck I'm almost more forgiving of the CIS backers coz Roberts has the one fuck up that's 10 years running. They've yet to accept this aint coming.

Molyneux was already a punchline in 2016. And people still went "But this time he wont lie and disapoint".

Edited by Ghilz on Feb 3rd 2022 at 7:34:01 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#223: Feb 3rd 2022 at 7:54:29 PM

Oddly, my biggest sadness from this is we'll never see another Wing commander game.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
SgtRicko Since: Jul, 2009
#224: Feb 4th 2022 at 2:13:01 AM

[up]True, but games with similar playstyles have been released over the years - House of the Dying Sun and Star Wars: Squadrons being great examples.

SgtRicko Since: Jul, 2009
#225: May 7th 2022 at 5:40:35 AM

Star Citizen is doing 'bedsheet deformation' physics now, because of course it is

The patch notes that mention this tidbit came from April's Squadron 42 development report. You'd be forgiven for thinking such an asinine thing was just the developers putting in a cheeky April fools joke, but nope, this is a real thing.

And of course, the community is divided in it's usual way; with outsiders and those getting frustrated with the endless feature creep making their feelings known, and staunch defenders doing their best mental Olympic gymnastics by pointing out all the other "Fixes" in the patch and insisting complainers know nothing about game development.

Edited by SgtRicko on May 7th 2022 at 5:40:44 AM


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