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DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#26: Oct 6th 2012 at 8:40:41 PM

Camberf: Personally, I like your picture. The fire highlights it, the quality is good, and the smile and violence is clearly evident on Frollo's face while Quasimodo and Esmerelda look helpless. To me, it looks like an evil man about to do something more evil.

Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#27: Oct 6th 2012 at 8:43:16 PM

I'm fine with that one, as long as we can crop it well, and keep the sword in frame.

DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#28: Oct 6th 2012 at 8:52:53 PM

[up] Makes me think of MEH Animated Film. The villain cruelly smiling while about to send the hero to his/their death.

edited 6th Oct '12 8:53:07 PM by DrPsyche

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#29: Oct 7th 2012 at 2:24:59 AM

[up][up][up]So, he's about to kill them. That describes a ton of villains, many who aren't Complete Monsters.

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ShadowHog from Earth Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#30: Oct 7th 2012 at 8:36:41 AM

Which is why I'd like a shot of Frollo being a lecher toward Esmerelda, honestly. Lots of Disney villains want to kill the heroes (although killing children is admittedly a step farther across the line than most) - not very many want to do them.

This scene already had a proposed shot in 9.6, but I think this shot's a better frame (slightly better conveys how Frollo wants her to me); only problem is somebody added some goofy vignette to it. A proper DVD rip would definitely be better...

I checked the pyre scene, and there weren't any real good shots - except maybe the shot where Frollo's intimidatingly approaching Esmerelda with the torch and this huge grin on his mouth, as she looks frightened as hell (just before/as he asks her to choose between marrying him or her death - or just before shot 9.4, if you need a visual).

edited 7th Oct '12 8:39:45 AM by ShadowHog

Moon
bananasloth serial tweaker, sorry from Budapest Since: Nov, 2009
serial tweaker, sorry
#31: Oct 7th 2012 at 9:01:16 AM

[up] The photobucket link is giving me an error.

Here are 9500+ caps from the film: [1], someone who's more familiar with the movie and knows where the monster scenes should be among the 100 pages might want to look through a few.

please don't capitalize my handle. I just don't like it.
ShadowHog from Earth Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#32: Oct 7th 2012 at 9:05:57 AM

Here it is in context.

I'll sort through that folder, sure.

EDIT: Different frame, but this one is even better. (Also, this frame just looks silly.)

This is the frame I was talking about in the third paragraph up there.

(Man, I almost feel like I'm distinguishing between frames of Joe Biden eating a sandwich.)

edited 7th Oct '12 9:18:33 AM by ShadowHog

Moon
AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#33: Oct 7th 2012 at 10:41:06 AM

I don't think being a creepy lecher quite qualifies as a Complete Monster, to be honest.

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Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#34: Oct 7th 2012 at 12:34:13 PM

We aren't going to find an image that fully illustrates this trope. There's only so much that a single frame can show about a person; whether it shows them murdering someone or being a creepy lecher, you'll need some context to know what kind of a person they really are. If the baby one doesn't look good on the page, I say we use this one and have the caption give context.

DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#35: Oct 7th 2012 at 1:24:54 PM

[up]I still think the picture looks good

@29: The Mad Doctor killing the heroes wasn't a CM either, taking down the photo was part of it (as you said, everyone tries to kill the heroes). It is still a heinous action, however, and can we find anyone of these villains pointing a gun at some kids, or surrounded by corpses? I can't find any shot of Mcleach (from The Rescuers) attempting harm on the kid, with both in the same shot.

@32, those pictures (not the one you said looks silly), also look good, though I believe Frollo holding the fire and grinning at her is the better one of the two.

edited 7th Oct '12 1:32:30 PM by DrPsyche

bananasloth serial tweaker, sorry from Budapest Since: Nov, 2009
serial tweaker, sorry
#36: Oct 7th 2012 at 2:36:29 PM

[up] here's one of him threatening a kid with a knife:

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DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#37: Oct 7th 2012 at 3:31:25 PM

[up] Wow, I missed that one,I only remember the knives hitting the board. Great job finding it. The quality's nice to.

edited 7th Oct '12 4:21:38 PM by DrPsyche

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#38: Oct 7th 2012 at 4:26:26 PM

[up][up][up][up]But it's misleading if it doesn't show the full extent of what a Complete Monster is. There are several tropes for people who commit evil acts, and a weak image can get this trope confused with them. There's already a problem with people misusing the trope for their favourite villains, as it's sort of a "prestige trope" (much like all Badass tropes, Magnificent Bastard, and a few others). A weak image will only encourage the problem.

[up][up]Like that one. Threatening a kid is hardly even a monster-class act.

edited 7th Oct '12 4:27:36 PM by AnotherDuck

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ShadowHog from Earth Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#39: Oct 7th 2012 at 6:02:28 PM

So if lechery and threatening children with bodily harm aren't Complete Monster, what is?

edited 7th Oct '12 6:02:48 PM by ShadowHog

Moon
Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#40: Oct 7th 2012 at 7:38:56 PM

Can we get a screenshot of Frollo rape-murdering an entire puppy cancer ward? I think that'd do it.

DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#41: Oct 7th 2012 at 8:18:01 PM

[up][up] Threatening a child with bodily harm is a bad act, Look at the Marvel page of CM. Also, Lechery is done in many situations, so, one needs context, and implications or display of force.

@Another Duck: Yeah, trope Decay is a big problem. Personally, I find that this trope is misused because people think that when a character is listed as a CM, they only can't have any good qualities (and they ignore the other criteria).

[up] Wait, how do we know that Notre Dame has a Cancer ward, much less a one for puppies. Do they even know what Cancer is?

edited 7th Oct '12 8:20:00 PM by DrPsyche

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#42: Oct 8th 2012 at 3:06:43 AM

[up][up][up]There's no and there. It's an or, unless you propose both images at the same time. And I'd still find it weak.

You know the classic grumpy old man who chases kids off his lawn with a shotgun? Yeah, a classical Complete Monster right there. Or any of the Lovable Sex Maniac we have there. For a threatening picture to work, it has to actually show he's perfectly willing to actually kill the kid, and showing it's his choice, and not that he's scared or otherwise forced to. That picture only shows him trying to spook the kid. For lechery you'd probably have to go as far as actual rape for an adequate illustration.

edited 8th Oct '12 3:07:35 AM by AnotherDuck

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ShadowHog from Earth Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#43: Oct 8th 2012 at 6:54:16 AM

Considering this is Disney, rape is completely out of the question. Frollo's lechery was (and still is) considered edgy for them, as far as that kind of subject is concerned.

As far as murder goes, there's Scar killing his brother. I think that's about as brazen as they've gotten with regards to that crime, barring Frollo attempting infanticide (which we've apparently already ruled out as being too vague).

As far as threatening kids goes...

Looked through Oliver And Company's shots, couldn't really find a good one of Sykes and Jenny - him kidnapping her has him obscured in his own car, him tying her up is a closeup on her wrists, and while there's some shots of him loading a gun, there aren't really any shots of him wielding the gun anywhere near her. Best you get is him behind his desk on the phone, while she's tied up to a chair. (Sequence of events starts here, roughly, when the car zooms in toward the end.)

I'm not familiar with The Rescuers or its sequel, nor The Black Cauldron.

The Jungle Book stars a kid, but as much as Shao Kahn Shere Khan wants to kill Mowgli, I can't really hold it against a tiger for acting on his nature.

Pinocchio has that whole kid -> donkey thing, but I don't know if there are any good shots of it.

Pretty much every other film stars adults.

I can't find anything better, but I'd really rather not leave the page blank because every suggestion is "weak". Do you have any suggestions? Here's a site full of shots from their films; it's proving to be quite useful. Think of a Disney villain you think qualifies, check out their film and see if any good shots exist.

edited 8th Oct '12 6:55:33 AM by ShadowHog

Moon
AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#44: Oct 8th 2012 at 8:18:35 AM

The thing is, when a weak picture can be misleading, I'd rather not have an image at all if there's no good one to be found.

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ShadowHog from Earth Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#45: Oct 8th 2012 at 8:32:25 AM

But they're not misleading, considering they are, in fact, complete monsters. It's not even really JAFAAC, we've got pictures of them doing (or looking very much inclined to do) despicable acts.

Moon
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#46: Oct 8th 2012 at 8:40:07 AM

But they're not misleading, considering they are, in fact, complete monsters.

Apart from the fact that image quality (and inferentially whether they are misleading) is measured by the quality of the pic, not that of the example, Complete Monster is a very complex trope so we can rely on context even less. That said...

Scar isn't an example, as far as my memory goes, and 43 is far too big at start.

Re 36: The kid's facial expression is rather mismatched to the trope.

"Frollo being a lecher" is rather weak.

18 is probably the best so far.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
ShadowHog from Earth Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#47: Oct 8th 2012 at 8:54:05 AM

Apart from the fact that image quality (and inferentially whether they are misleading) is measured by the quality of the pic, not that of the example...
...eh, you got me there. Stupid argument on my part.

I just don't want to see this page go blank. 18's good by me, in all honesty.

Moon
Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#48: Oct 8th 2012 at 8:59:12 AM

Alright, if we can get enough votes for that one, then we can choose a caption.

It gets my vote, by the way.

edited 8th Oct '12 8:59:48 AM by Camberf

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
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#49: Oct 8th 2012 at 12:34:49 PM

18 works well enough for me.

DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#50: Oct 8th 2012 at 1:28:56 PM

18 has my vote as well, a close second for me would be Frollo grinning at Esmeralda with the fire in the pyre scene.


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