TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Ethically Sound Necromancy

Go To

Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#151: Oct 9th 2012 at 6:34:23 AM

When it comes to necromancy I'm more into "tomb guardians" that come back up when their territory (or their descendants') is under attack.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#152: Oct 9th 2012 at 9:36:31 AM

@Ramidel

I don't know if it will be a pure surplus. What is the input cost for raising skeletons? Is it equivalent exchange?

TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#153: Oct 9th 2012 at 11:36:45 AM

Hmm, if I was dead and someone brought me back to a form of life that didn't experience any pain, hunger, fear or hate, I don't think I would mind that much.

Then again, I wouldn't mind much if someone stripped all my bones from my body and replaced them with a Terminator-style endoskeleton, and dumped all the contents of what makes me human, my mind and all that stuff, into a collection of CP Us. Or did the same sort of work on me that was done on Adam Jensen in the recent Human Revolution game.

I wouldn't be saying such piss as "I never asked for this."

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#154: Oct 9th 2012 at 11:52:02 AM

[up]Agree with you there: like I had a bunch of choice being born in the first place, right? [lol]

Lawyerdude Citizen from my secret moon base Since: Jan, 2001
Citizen
#155: Oct 9th 2012 at 12:40:20 PM

The existence of sentient undead would raise a whole horde of questions. For example, is the undead creature the same "person" or not? Or is it just a dead body inhabited by a simulacrum of the previous occupant? In either case, what rights do sentient undead have? Can they vote, own, inherit or bequeath property?

In fantasy worlds it's not that much of a concern, since undead like Vampires or Liches can either hide their state from the public, or they're so powerful already that few would dare try to stop them. (Want to try to collect Lord Xykon's taxes?)

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.
Qeise Professional Smartass from sqrt(-inf)/0 Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Waiting for you *wink*
Professional Smartass
#156: Oct 10th 2012 at 4:40:30 AM

The existence of sentient undead would raise a whole horde of questions. For example, is the undead creature the same "person" or not? Or is it just a dead body inhabited by a simulacrum of the previous occupant? In either case, what rights do sentient undead have? Can they vote, own, inherit or bequeath property?
True, but this doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. I sure would rather have immortality with no vote rather than death forever with no vote.

Laws are made to be broken. You're next, thermodynamics.
Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#157: Oct 10th 2012 at 5:38:20 AM

What about autonecromancy? If I don't want to die do I have the right to use arcane magics to raise myself from the dead?

betaalpha betaalpha from England Since: Jan, 2001
betaalpha
#158: Oct 10th 2012 at 6:20:40 AM

[up] Maybe you need to register with your local temple or church. If you reach Wight or higher and they don't have a high enough level cleric in case you turn a bit diabolical, that could be trouble. Maybe you could take rehumanizing lessons every hundred years or so to stave off the old 'beyond the affairs of brief pitiful mortals' syndrome.

KylerThatch literary masochist Since: Jan, 2001
literary masochist
#159: Oct 10th 2012 at 6:26:30 AM

"Rehumanizing lessons"?

If you really wanted to keep your humanity, a big part of it would be, you know, hanging out around humans. Also known as socializing.

And if we lived in a world where necromancy carries no stigma, a couple of undead folk would have no problem hanging around normal people. (As long as they make themselves presentable. No one wants to hang around someone who smells like rotting flesh, for example.)

This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...
Cassie The armored raven from Malaysia, but where? Since: Feb, 2011
The armored raven
#160: Oct 10th 2012 at 6:53:10 AM

I would still opt for people to make a choice before any of this is implemented. The Right To Not Be Raised, and the Right To Not Be Utilized As Husk

What profit is it to a man, when he gains his money, but loses his internet? Anonymous 16:26 I believe...
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#161: Oct 10th 2012 at 6:55:14 AM

I agree the first should be a right, but not the second. I'd say that the use of their dead body as a form of undead should be perfectly fine regardless. It's not like they're going to use it, unless they wish to be resurrected, but, then, using their body as a husk would interfere with other rights of theirs.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#162: Oct 10th 2012 at 7:50:15 AM

What happens to organ donation, if bodies are constantly being reanimated?

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#163: Oct 10th 2012 at 7:54:36 AM

I doubt a zombie or skeleton need a kidney or lung or heart. They can be donated.

Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#164: Oct 10th 2012 at 8:05:47 AM

Couldn't you reanimate the faulty organ while it was still in the patient?

Lawyerdude Citizen from my secret moon base Since: Jan, 2001
Citizen
#165: Oct 10th 2012 at 8:09:36 AM

Well, if we lived in a world of magically-reanimated skeletons, I'm pretty sure that somebody could also discover how to magic you up a new kidney or lung. Isn't there a "Regenerate" spell that does just that? Or maybe not; it all depends on the arbitrary rules of magic.

One major drawback to creating sentient undead, or really any sort of immortality, would be social stagnation. Imagine a country or corporation run by a vampire or lich. And then as time goes by, the upper echelons of society are filled with wealthy, powerful, undying overlords. Eventually the weight of the undead would overtake the living, due to sheer numbers and power. Why would I bother having children and grandchildren if I can just live forever and be my own legacy?

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#166: Oct 10th 2012 at 8:53:11 AM

@Qeise: I would rather not have immortality if it's not "me" inside my body anymore.

[up] Interestingly, while the idea of the "socially stagnant" society of immortal creatures ruling everything has been explored extensively in fiction, the idea of immortal or quasi-immortal humans as masterful long-term planners (i.e., the positive side of immortality) doesn't seem to come up as much. Robert A Heinlein addressed it in his "Future History" series, although it wasn't from the perspective of The Undead.

It seems to me that someone becoming immortal via undeath would focus themselves first and foremost on sustaining whatever eldritch magic enables said immortality. Conservation of energy needs to be addressed in any realistic setting.

edited 10th Oct '12 8:55:58 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
KylerThatch literary masochist Since: Jan, 2001
literary masochist
#167: Oct 10th 2012 at 9:22:05 AM

@161: Why shouldn't the second be a right? What's the difference between this, and choosing not to opt-in as an organ donor?

This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#168: Oct 10th 2012 at 9:28:53 AM

@Kyler: Why should someone be able to choose to opt out of having organs from the body that used to be theirs be used to save lives? I don't think either should be their right. The collection of atoms that used to compose their body isn't their's any more than the legos used to build a house are still a house when they're used to build, say, an X-Wing.

edited 10th Oct '12 9:30:13 AM by deathpigeon

Qeise Professional Smartass from sqrt(-inf)/0 Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Waiting for you *wink*
Professional Smartass
#169: Oct 10th 2012 at 9:44:05 AM

@Qeise: I would rather not have immortality if it's not "me" inside my body anymore.
I posted in response to Lawerdudes post on wether the undead should should have the right to vote, own, inherit, and other such rights which could cause problems to the living if given to the undead, and assumed it would actually be "me".

Wether or not I would consent to donating my body to undeath for somebody other than myself would depend on several factors. Does it limit or prevent my chances of having an undeath? If yes, I would rather use my corpse myself. If no, would who/whatever inhabits my body make the world better or worse? If better, then yes, I would donate my otherwise useless corpse to a good cause.

Laws are made to be broken. You're next, thermodynamics.
LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#170: Oct 10th 2012 at 6:38:43 PM

Some people might have a religious objection to having their bodies used. I don't think trampling all over that is really going to be a good idea.

Be not afraid...
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#171: Oct 10th 2012 at 6:42:14 PM

Well if we're talking about a setting where the deceased bodies are reusable resources, then they should be treated as property. That means once people die, their bodies should be given as inheritance to their family members, or to legal recipients if the will specified them.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#172: Oct 10th 2012 at 6:50:35 PM

Should I be allowed to sell the "labor rights" to my body before I die?

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Hydronix I'm an Irene! from TV Tropes Since: Apr, 2010
I'm an Irene!
#173: Oct 10th 2012 at 6:52:05 PM

[up] Yes. I think the original owner of the body should decide these things. Just like how they decide they can be a organ donor.

Quest 64 thread
Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#174: Oct 10th 2012 at 7:09:11 PM

In one of the short stories in the Walking Dead anthology, you could take out loans with your corpse as collaterial. As soon as you paid the money back before you died, no biggie. If you died still in debt, then you were reanimated as labor until your debt was paid.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#175: Oct 10th 2012 at 7:30:30 PM

Did that tempt the creditors to off any debtors who couldn't pay? Gives a whole new meaning to "Worth more dead than alive"!

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.

Total posts: 252
Top