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RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#9526: Jul 12th 2019 at 8:26:30 AM

And, in the end, it turns out the real Big Bad was Beatrice.

Who's Beatrice? Who knows!

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#9527: Jul 12th 2019 at 10:13:14 AM

Maybe she'll be better in the final season. She better be, because the final season needs a damn good Big Bad.

Also, I looked up the Ninth Circle from the comics, and as far as I can tell they're not an Ancient Conspiracy. More emphasis is also put on them just being evil bankers.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#9529: Jul 12th 2019 at 4:12:41 PM

Is that a reference to the chances of actually getting a good Big Bad? Because Arrow has had some good ones.

S1 was Merlyn (good), S2 was Slade (good), S3 was Ra's due to Merlyn's stupid manipulations (bad), S4 was Darhk (good—the season was bad, but Darhk was fun), S5 was Chase (bad), S6 was Diaz (bad), and S7 was Emiko (bad).

So... three out of seven were decent, and one was in a terrible season. Yeah, doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#9530: Jul 12th 2019 at 4:17:47 PM

[up]Looks like a steady decline vs anything else, and even then I would argue Ra’s got screwed over by well, being freaking Ra’s Ah Guhl. This was when “Oliver is just off brand Bruce Wayne” really hit its peak, and doing “Heir to the Demon” was criticized for that reason. If you had an assassin leader who wasn’t inorexably tied to Batman’s mythos, there would have been less complaints.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#9531: Jul 12th 2019 at 4:38:00 PM

I kinda figured the Big Bad of Season 8 was going to be the Anti-Monitor.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#9532: Jul 12th 2019 at 6:53:35 PM

That will presumably be the villain of the crossover. Way too big (and too early in the season) to be the ultimate Big Bad for Arrow.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#9533: Jul 12th 2019 at 10:17:05 PM

Wait what, you thought Chase was bad? Best Arrowverse villain ever imO^^

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Cross (Don’t ask)
#9534: Jul 12th 2019 at 10:29:31 PM

Different strokes for different blokes.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#9535: Jul 13th 2019 at 12:26:20 AM

Sure. Up to now I just didn't have any idea that there were people who genuinely disliked Prometheus. Even some people who think Season 5 is overrated agree on him being the best thing about it.

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ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#9536: Jul 13th 2019 at 12:01:30 PM

Segarra knocked it out of the park, that's for sure. At one point this You Tube reviewer I like called it "the goddamn Adrian Chase show".

That's not to say everything about season 5 was great, but Prometheus was a highlight, in my eyes.

I was also just tickled to hear Michael Dorn be his voice in-costume. Between him and Tony Todd doing Zoom, it was funny to have both sons of Mogh be the voice of villains in the Arrowverse.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#9537: Jul 13th 2019 at 10:25:44 PM

My problem with Chase was the constant use of "the villain magically knows whatever is convenient for the plot." Not to mention the overuse of the revenge motivation. I will admit he was solid whenever he was actually on screen.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#9538: Jul 14th 2019 at 8:48:02 AM

Yeah. Almost all of Oliver's villains seem to want to destroy Oliver, either for things he had no control over, or just because.

And Chase knowing about Black Siren and the Legends was a bit much too. Him breaking into Team Flash's prison and getting her out without them even noticing (though as I recall, they were going through their usual crazy shit at the time) is a bit much.

One Strip! One Strip!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#9539: Jul 14th 2019 at 3:01:32 PM

Hey, at least it wasn't Thinker-Level bad.

And yeah, revenge in and on itself is a little generic as a goal, but Adrian just took it to a whole 'nother level. The sheer hatred he had of Oliver and the lengths he was willing to go to ruin his life truly were a sight to behold. He truly messed with Oliver in a way no other villain even came close to. Which is why I'll always love that crazy son of a bitch.

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Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#9540: Jul 15th 2019 at 1:15:12 PM

Oh yeah, Thinker was horrible. At least Chase basically always knew everything; it was annoying, but consistent. Thinker could predict one event down to the millisecond, and then completely fail to anticipate the warden (who he knew was selling metas because he bought some from him) might interfere with Barry in an entirely predictable way. And that was before he was getting into his mental degeneration where he couldn't predict anything that wasn't perfectly logical. Which is a bit of a tired trope, but not too bad.

Of course, it didn't help that Thinker's motivation got screwed up halfway through the season when they fired the head writer for sexual assault allegations, and then had to throw out all his scripts.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#9541: Jul 15th 2019 at 3:40:57 PM

[up]I think that’s when I dropped the series. Apparently with good reason.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#9542: Jul 15th 2019 at 4:45:34 PM

Both Arrow and the Flash had horrible Season 4's. Thankfully, Supergirl and Legends averted this.

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Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#9543: Jul 15th 2019 at 9:20:10 PM

As much as I disliked the Flash season 4, I still enjoyed it. Same with Arrow season 4; yeah it had loads of problems, but Darhk was fun. The only part of the Arrowverse that I gave up on was the second half of Arrow season 6.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#9544: Jul 16th 2019 at 12:47:08 AM

Well, sure, even the worst seasons had SOME good in them.

Arrow Season 3 had Ray Palmer, Arrow Season 4 had Damien Darhk, Flash Season 4 had Ralph Dibny, Supergirl Season 2 had Rick Malverne.....

I always watched every season from start to end, it was never so bad that I couldn't bear on continuing.

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Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#9545: Jul 16th 2019 at 6:16:26 AM

Fuck yeah. Guess who's back for S8?

https://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-colin-donnell-josh-segarra-return-final-season-cw/

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Cross (Don’t ask)
#9546: Jul 16th 2019 at 6:23:31 AM

Cool Tommy's back. Here's hoping this one isn't like his Earth-X version.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#9547: Jul 16th 2019 at 8:26:11 AM

This seems to be re-affirming my theory that Season 8 will basically be "Sliders with superheroes".

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#9548: Jul 16th 2019 at 6:33:49 PM

Oh yeah, Thinker was horrible. At least Chase basically always knew everything; it was annoying, but consistent. Thinker could predict one event down to the millisecond, and then completely fail to anticipate the warden (who he knew was selling metas because he bought some from him) might interfere with Barry in an entirely predictable way.

I think the worst of it was that episode where they tried to shoehorn in that silly "Team Flash is too soft for not killing him, even though they never had the choice to do so in the first place" conflict. The response to that is them finally devising a way to get past Devoe's shields, counteract his meta abilities and capture. They put a plan together, there's even a good aversion of Unspoken Plan Guarantee, and they actually defeat him in battle and do so.

Enter end of episode, where it suddenly and inexplicably stops working for no reason whatsoever, making the entire previous hour of content a pointless waste. It was really transparent that they had no idea what to fill the time until the finale with, so they just filled the time with whatever.

They had the same problem with Cicada. It wasn't as bad as with Devoe, but it was still really obvious.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#9549: Jul 16th 2019 at 7:04:14 PM

[up][up] Probably. And we'll most likely finally get Lena in a crossover, since she knows about Kara now and the Monitor is doing something with Lex. I'm a tiny bit worried that they'll follow the comics and have all the universes merge together. The comics had to do that because everything was too confused and needed a reboot, but the Arrowverse is mostly fine. A multiverse-merging reboot would just be confusing.

[up] Which episode was that? The only one I can think of is the one with the neural inhibitor, but I doubt that's it, since Devoe didn't have shields at that point, and there was a reason the inhibitor stopped working (it blocked Devoe's main power, but not Kilgore's).

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#9550: Jul 16th 2019 at 9:37:21 PM

Going through the episodes, I think it was Lose Yourself (4x18). That one had them think up a way to take out Devoe's chair, with exposition about how it should overcome all his abilities. Then when it works, they stick him in meta cuffs.

Then, as I recall, either Devoe just uses his powers despite the cuffs or the chair starts working again despite the exposition, but either way I remember it not getting any explanation. He just is defeated one second, isn't defeated the next.


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