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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#1476: Jun 1st 2020 at 8:45:23 AM

One thing the sequel improved over the first game was unique equipment. I really liked how you could take different enchantment paths with some gear.

POE 2 did a lot to improve from the first game in terms of gameplay (to the point that it makes going back to the first one kinda hard).

Turning the spells into per-encounter rather than per-rest resources eliminates the 2 hour work day.

Removing the awkward and unintuitive endurance/health system for a three strike-you're-out wound system

Spells that open up interesting and exotic multiclassing option. For example the spirit lance spell allows for some incredible melee builds with paladin or barbarian that one might not think a wizard is suited for.

The only part of Deadfire's gameplay I dislike is the boats. The choose-your-own-adventure text based format leads to ship battles being... pretty boring. And the way boat fights involve EVERYONE means that pretty rapidly most boat fights can be won by just ditching it entirely and ramming the other boat to engage them in normal combat, where enemy crews are ill prepared to face the entire party + everyone else on the boat, especially if they are all kitted out.

Edited by Ghilz on Jun 1st 2020 at 11:49:05 AM

ch00beh ??? from Who Knows Where Since: Jul, 2010
???
#1477: Jun 1st 2020 at 9:28:18 AM

I love the idea and narrative adventure of ship combat so I still do it, but yeah, I always inevitably get beaten up so just go for ramming speed and clean the deck by hand

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#1478: Jun 1st 2020 at 9:33:21 AM

I think the narrative stuff works well for the exploration segments, or some of the random encounters you have on the sea.

But I think them being used for the ship to ship combat leads the aforementioned ship combat to feel like it was a last minute addition and greatly detracts from a major part of the game.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#1479: Jun 1st 2020 at 11:10:22 AM

[pokes head in] Vancian Magic is a great system and POE 2 further compromising for the plebs is a darn shame.

Me and my moods, I am not even feeling like being a caster in Deadfir anymore. Why even bother when they remove the best thing about casting.

Edited by Nikkolas on Jun 1st 2020 at 11:11:19 AM

ch00beh ??? from Who Knows Where Since: Jul, 2010
???
#1480: Jun 1st 2020 at 11:57:18 AM

Not to interrupt your self-righteous gatekeeping, but I wouldn’t necessarily call deadfire’s magic mechanics a “compromise for the plebs”. It’s still vancian—you just don’t have to pop a rest in between encounters—but it lends itself better imo to a game where there is more frequent combat and you are managing more than one actor’s resource pools.

More encounters with more adds were established in Po E 1. Would it be interesting if Po E 2 swung the other way and did fewer encounters and stricter resource management? Sure. But you shouldn’t look at mechanics in a vacuum without actually acknowledging the gameplay.

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#1481: Jun 1st 2020 at 1:07:28 PM

I was being a bit of an exaggerated dick. I don't think people are plebs but I do prefer having to rest. It's not even broken like Neverwinter Nights was; Camping Supplies and limitations forced you to be smarter about how you play. Or you just run out of the dungeon a lot and have to come back. I have done that but mostly I try to play conservatively and pragmatically with my spells because that's the heart and soul of Vancian magic. Be smart and prepared.

You just don't see Vancian casting enough in video games.

Edited by Nikkolas on Jun 1st 2020 at 1:09:17 AM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#1482: Jun 1st 2020 at 1:51:52 PM

I was sad to hear about them dialing back Vancian casting at first, but the new system ends up being fluid enough that I didn't really miss it. Wizards still get grimoires, you can still swap them out during combat — it ends up feeling like you're memorizing spells without quite as much micromanagement. Other classes have to choose between their abilities/spells and their perks, but that's less of a problem for wizards. All spells now scale with level, so you don't end up with low-level spells you never use, and there's also a new Empower mechanic that lets you boost any ability by 10 power levels a few times a day, so you do still kind of get some of that blow-everything-you've-got-left-before-you-rest catharsis.

It's streamlined but in a good way. Still preserves that sense of momentum, deciding whether to keep pushing versus stopping to rest.

Edited by Unsung on Jun 1st 2020 at 2:32:39 AM

Novis from To the Moon's song. Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
#1483: Jun 1st 2020 at 1:57:29 PM

Vancian can be kind of interesting from a world building perspective, but in gameplay usually leads to the situation where spellcasters dominate part of the time and are stuck twiddling their thumbs the rest of the time. This wasn’t really the case in Po E, but mostly because physical types got things to do besides basic attacks and the casters has some repeatable things.

You say I am loved, when I don’t feel a thing. You say I am strong, when I think I am weak. You say I am held, when I am falling short.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#1484: Jun 2nd 2020 at 4:35:53 PM

So I got Deadfire and I started it up just to test out character creation Took a while to get there, turned off sound to avoid spoilers. I did glance at the provided Histories though. "Everything Bad." That describes most of my RPG playthroughs if you listen to a lot of folks. Then again, I always look after my companions. I didn't read the description because, again, spoilers, but presumably everything being bad would mean you let all your buddies die or sacrificed them in some quest or something. I don't play that shit.

I'm sorely tempted to play a Cipher in Deadfire. Multiclassed with something else, I dunno what, but it feels....right. After talking with Grieving Mother, Ciphers feel the most appropriate for a Watcher. Plus they're a distinctly "POE Class," if that makes sense. They are a unique feature of this setting and represent its primary themes and ideas. I can be a Paladin or a Druid in another game, I can only be a Cipher here.

I'm considering Cipher/Barbarian (Witch) because I like Ciphers a lot now and encountering Barbarians in POE 1 has really made me want one of them on my side.

With the addition of Multiclassing, I figured I could come up with a relatively unique PC. Obviously various NPC's will have the same Class but no companions will be like me.

But fuckin' hell, the one POE 2 companion I've heard about most - this Serafen - is exactly the type of character I was considering. (I think I've dropped the Paladin idea now I have Deadfire and am looking at character creation.)

I guess you can both be Witches but be built entirely differently... Or I could just enver use him.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#1485: Jun 3rd 2020 at 9:32:21 AM

You can still use Serafen as a witch, same deal as Aloth and your PC wizard.

You could make him a single-class cipher (or barbarian, but that's weird because his psychic powers come up all the time in dialogue), or make him a more defensive, tanky witch to your damage dealer (or vice-versa), or have either one of you focus more on one class over the other, one more of a caster, the other a frontliner. Ciphers can be built as roguish debuffers and damage dealers, melee or ranged, support/healers, etc, etc. The powers you choose, for that matter — do you want to spam lots of cheap low-level powers, or save up your focus/rage for higher-tier abilities?

Lore-wise, I think you probably get the most out of the game by making your Watcher a chanter/cipher — the multiclass is even called Spiritualist, and you do get special options when you can read minds and souls *and* embody them through chanting. It doesn't completely change the game or anything, but those class dialogue options, when they come, did feel very plot-relevant.

Edited by Unsung on Jun 3rd 2020 at 10:51:16 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1486: Jun 3rd 2020 at 9:33:45 AM

Another point is that Serafen's specialization is unique to him. So even if you make your Watcher a Witch, they still won't be identical to Serafen.

Disgusted, but not surprised
ch00beh ??? from Who Knows Where Since: Jul, 2010
???
#1487: Jun 3rd 2020 at 10:25:52 AM

I made serafen a cipher/barbarian dual blunderbuss boye. The cipher stuff is really more for domination and debuffs while the barbarian AOE generates tons of focus.

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter
SpookyMask Since: Jan, 2011
#1488: Jun 3rd 2020 at 10:49:11 AM

@Nikkolas: Everything bad is basically that character ignored EVERY single quest as much as possible, and either didn't recruit companions or got them killed AND never even got any benefit to themselves, and whenever possible, made worst possible choices

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#1489: Jun 3rd 2020 at 3:04:48 PM

Well I'm just gonna import my save and hope everything is at least okay. Of course I haven't even finished the game yet. I just arrived at Twin Elms. I have a collection of thoughts from the last few days I'll post later.

But Spooky, do you prefer Pathfinder to POE? I just notice you've been quiet apart from commenting on wanting to see me play Kingmaker.

SpookyMask Since: Jan, 2011
#1490: Jun 3rd 2020 at 9:55:34 PM

I prefer Po E 2 for turn based mode alone ;D

If compared to Po E 1 and Kingmaker, each one has pros and cons. My quietness is mostly related to being somewhat busy with stuff (aka failing at continuing writing my short story resulting in procrastination and being excited about my gf's birthday :P )

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#1491: Jun 4th 2020 at 10:23:47 AM

    More POE 1 Progress and Babbling 
So I was looking at Crafting for the first time in a while and I noticed I can actually make some really good stuff. I haven't had much use for Potions or Scrolls but some of the stuff I can make sounds really good. This Potion to increase attack speed by 50% would pair perfectly with my spell to slow enemies. Then there's all he scrolls. I've been ignoring the Lore stat for a long time. Maybe my mistake.

I loved how when I moved to Fort Worth nobody said anything about how the residents of a nearby county had just started eating one another. Seriously, I've been in Defiance Bay talking to a bunch of head honchos and commoners alike and not one word about this except from a random, out of the way unvoiced NPC in Crucible Keep.

Speaking of companions, how do you all feel about evil choices in these games?

When I was playing New Vegas, I didn't want to have Arcade as a companion because it didn't fit my character. In gameplay, Arcade will stand there and watch or actually help you as you mow down innocent people. But obviously from a story/roleplaying/immersion viewpoint, that is a big no-no. Somebody on Reddit even said if you're playing evil you gotta go solo because nobody in your team would allow a lot of these choices. Even Durance would balk at some things, like working with Osrya, the animancer in Raedric's employ. If this was a Bio Ware game he'd speak up and maybe even attack me for that.

Durance is certainly the most...morally ambiguous companion in this game so far as i can tell at the moment. Eder, Kana and Sagani are just straight up good people. I'm still not sure what's going on with Aloth or Grieving Mother. And Hiravias is there.

Surely the weakest part of an evil character is that often there are no companions who wold really go along with you if you are looking at things as believably as possible and looking passed the limitations of gameplay.

I tried again with my now Level 8 party against the horde at the end of Endless Path 7. I was doing great until Grieving Mother and Itumaak were Dominated. i don't have a clue what to do about that. I don't know of any way to remove it or prevent it apart from some accessories I already have on them. There are just so many enemies here. - 3 of 4 Greater Blights, some normal Blights, 3 or 4 Adragan, at least 3 Spectres and an Adra Animat who can heal. It really was going quite well in my latest attempt right up until GM was Dominated. I don't feel like struggling through that hellish fight al over again just to have everything invariably turned on me in one move.

And....I guess it's mostly my fault this has been so hard. I forgot the lesson I learned on Endless Paths 6; divide and conquer. I didn't realize you could do that here, though. I had tried before and nothing. The trick is to not run away too far and some will follow while others turn and walk away. If I ever encounter a horde like this again, should I just assume it's supposed to be broken up and picked off that way?

Wiped out The Dozens in the Expedition Hall. I actually really like that the game gives you an opportunity to wipe out the local leaders of the three big Defiance Bay factions. You can steal stuff in plain sight to aggro the Dozens or Knights and you an just straight up attack the doorman at the Doumenel and tell him you're here to kill everyone and loot the place. What happens if you wipe out all three groups?

Sagani: 'Murder and intrigue. You sure know how to show a girl an...interesting time."

Eder: "Well, someone's going to be mad at someone after this, we know that."

I was so taken aback by Sagani's reply to me agreeing to serve House Doumenel and assassinate thE Marshal that I reloaded. I didn't think it was random, I thought different party members were scripted to have responses at certain points. But as I tried to check the exact wording of Sagani's response (I think I have it pretty much right), I got Aloth responding instead. And he responded again the next time I reloaded. Finally I got Eder's line.

I find these simple little lines absolutely fascinating given my recent discussion of evil companions and how it is perhaps unbelievable that somebody like Eder or Sagani would travel with a Watcher who engages in the kind of shady shit you can get up to. Well, her we have a man blatantly asking you to murder another man and my two most noble companions just give little quips. Verys surprising but rather intriguing at the same time. I'm just glad to know the people I like are okay with my activities.

And already I'm caught up in House Doumenel intrigue. No sooner than have I walked down the stairs than Gedmar's son tells me not to plant the token to frame teh Dozens. Now, given my Honest 3, I dislike deception a lot. I would prefer a straightforward approach like the son. But I had already agreed to do this deed this way. Furthermore, I don't trust the little weasel. This is not the kind of arrangement where you take liberties nor do I think that brat would stick his neck out for me. No, not leaving the token is a very bad idea from all angles.

House Doumenel really was an easy choice. On the one side we have The Dozens who aer a virulently xenophobic mob and my PC if from Aedyr. The Crucible Knights seemed okay at first before I found out they are pulling some Anvil of the Void/Golem shit. Say what you want about murderers and thieves, they aren't imprisoning your eternal soul as a slave keeper of the peace.

So Kolsc from forever ago was being supported by this incredibly evil and stupid Gathbin. i clearly did he right thing by killing him.

I released the souls in Heritage Hill. This is apparently important for the endgame. I was tempted to steal the essence for myself but that doesn't fit my character here. Although, let's talk about that. It's the same person in POE 1 and 2. So shouldn't I have the same class and personality? But I don't wanna do that.

Well...geez. That was a really unhappy ending for a companion quest. Those are exceedingly rare in my experience. Usually it's possible to have a darker ending for a companion but as far as I know, the Fragments of a Scattered Faith always leaves Eder feeling hollow. I feel sorry for the poor guy.

So I'm glad I'm not the only person who had no idea what the pop up that said "you are considered high level. If you would like, the critical path can be increased." The critical path? What the fuck does that mean? Just say we'er gonna increase the level of the enemies. In any event, I chose High Level.

It was one thing to call Calisca way fucking forever ago about the exact circumstances of my backstory but what is up with me being able to tell Thaos a bunch of different things about this past life? Is it me "shaping" that past life or am I just wrong? In any event, I told him I was in love with the "traitor woman" but she didn't e return my feelings. I dunno why I chose it, that's why I'm so befuddled at all this. I just pick what sounds most interesting to me.

Gotta watch out for those damned spoilers. You apparently chat up Eothas in Deadfire. It came up in a topic of Woedica and my character. Bleh. Oh well.

I dislike how intensely necessary Intellect is in this game. I like playing dumb characters - it was a blast in New Vegas. And I don't think a Barbarian should be a supergenius. But everybody benefits from longer buffs and bigger AOE's so you can't dump it as far as I can see. I'm just gonna have to avoid [Intellect] options for Deadfire.

I think I found a good place to stop and post my thoughts on my last several days of progress in POE 1. I don't know how Deadfire is gonna happen since the Watcher is lying dead in a hole in the ground that she stupidly jumped into but ya know. I saw a pit, I had to jump into it and see what happened. But seriously, I honestly was wondering if this would kill me and whddya know, it did.

I feel like how important a companion is can be judged by how many lines they actually get voiced. Eder, Durance and Grieving Mother get the most voiced dialogue in companion talks but Sagani and Pallegina get basically nothing.

Speaking of Durance, had another vision with him, this one about seeing twelve sombols go out but I think one was still lit up. There were a pair of twelve, right? One to hold Waidwen and the other to actually set off the Godhammer? Somebody might have spoiled me on this talking about Durance being a "failed suicdie bomber." Maybe his rage and bitterness is self-loathing because he didn't go through with sacrificing himself like he was supposed to? The lights going out symbolized the others who did give their lives while his light still shines because he fled or something? I might just be getting horribly mixed up. None of you have to clarify or answer this, I'm sure I'll get my answers since he's always in my party and will remain so for the foreseeable future. I'm just musing in the meantime.

Do I have to do Endless Paths? I really hated them, like, a lot. There ere a couple days there when I was totally burnt out on the game because I was focusing on them. As soon as i went to Defiance Bay and started drowning in quess and new plotlines, I've been totally into the game moreso than at any other point. Just playing nonstop which is why I haven't felt I found a good time to stop and post all this. But...fuck the Endles Paths, man. I'm having a great time in Twim Elms, told Pallegina to follow her heart and not fuck over the Dyrwood and now just strolling about doing stuff.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1492: Jun 4th 2020 at 10:27:16 AM

Durance's issue is that he can't reconnect with his goddess Magran anymore. He thinks he's disappointed her somehow even though he did as she asked by killing Eothas with the Godhammer.

Edited by M84 on Jun 5th 2020 at 1:31:40 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#1493: Jun 4th 2020 at 10:36:22 AM

Well that much was said forever ago. But there is obviously more as hinted at by this last vision and his refusal to explain what it meant.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1494: Jun 4th 2020 at 10:41:24 AM

Yes, the rest of the Dozen did die while Durance did not. And there's a reason for that.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#1495: Jun 4th 2020 at 2:51:02 PM

I don't remember the exact wording, but I'm fairly sure Durance isn't one of the actual Dozen who stood and stalled Waidwen on the bridge. There were twelve people who stood on the bridge, and there were twelve builders who constructed the Godhammer, but they're not the same twelve people. Durance was one of the builders, but not actually there on the bridge that day. I believe Beast of Winter says he was miles away at Ashfall. Kind of confusing, but yeah. Twelve is pretty much the arc number for the setting.

You do get to retroactively choose the past in those flashbacks with Thaos. Just roll with it. You didn't miss anything, that's how it happens.

If you don't like the Endless Paths, you don't have to do them. The dungeon is plot-relevant in the second game, but it also retcons part of the first game's ending. You could just look up spoilers after you're done.

Sagani, Pallegina, and most of the other companions get most of their dialogue on their personal quests and they have about as much to say in banter and interjections during the main quest as everyone else, but yeah, Eder, Durance, and Grieving Mother have the most extensive individual dialogue trees by far.

Sooo did you ever take Aloth to that animancer at Brackenbury? It sounds like maybe you didn't. If not, you might not actually find out what's going on with him, I'm not sure.

Edited by Unsung on Jun 4th 2020 at 9:19:38 AM

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#1496: Jun 4th 2020 at 5:04:40 PM

I was supposed to take him to an Animancer in Brackenbury? No, I definitely didn't do that. Is that what 'Quest Failed: Two Sided" was about? I did get a notice about quest failed when everything went to shit in Defiance Bay.

I was wondering what his deal was since I haven't talked to him or heard him say anything since...uh, Gilded Vale.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1497: Jun 4th 2020 at 7:04:08 PM

[up][up]I think it was speculated that Durance was miles away from the actual explosion. OTOH, a key part of his backstory is that Durance was close enough to have his soul be damaged by the Godhammer.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#1498: Jun 4th 2020 at 7:59:45 PM

[up]Wasn't it damaged by the making of it, similar to how the power of it etched itself on his staff? And if he wasn't standing on the bridge, it doesn't seem like he could be one of the Dozen that the Dozens style themselves upon — and he doesn't really seem to know that the other eleven builders died, which doesn't really make sense if they were the Dozen.

With the reveal that Eothas really was possessing Waidwen, the idea that the Godhammer had to be more than even just a really powerful bomb starts to look a lot more plausible, and by that same token the idea that this Fantastic Nuke also generated some damaging soul radiation seems like the kind of thing Obsidian would do, leaving it as a potential hook for later.

[up][up]Yeah, that's the one. That really is about the time when he starts pouring his heart out to you. The companions in the first game really can be pretty quiet, and I'm not sure what happens with him if you don't do that quest. Could be there's another trigger? I'm not sure. Did he at least want to talk with you after the riots? The little speech bubble icon above his portrait?

Edited by Unsung on Jun 4th 2020 at 8:01:05 AM

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#1499: Jun 4th 2020 at 8:14:01 PM

I haven't used anybody in my party except Durance, Grieving Mother, Eder, Sagani and Pallegina for a while now. I'll head back to Caed Nua and check in on Aloth.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#1500: Jun 4th 2020 at 8:25:23 PM

You can also swap them out at the nearest inn — the one in Twin Elms is the big tree in the SE corner of Hearthsong.


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