You mean the boy who was trapped in a building in one of the towns? He wasn't one of the scouting league. Probably still a trainee or one of the wall troops.
Also, the 90% of died probably mostly died when they had just enlisted into the Scouting League.
And my God - you are too hung up on the 90% death rate against a foe which destroyed most of humanity.
Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.Last post before I go away for many hours, and because my inner!historian is still upset by the practically ridiculous (fanciful) standards of what TV Tropes thinks is a Badass Army.
http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/18/19
New Recruits Death Rate 50%.
I do not wish to argue later on that new recruits in a Badass Army are NOT immediately badasses.
http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/18/16
90% Death Rate in 4 years.
Do take note that the Scouting League gets very few recruits in the first place. In this chapter, they only got 21 recruits out of what looks like maybe 200+ trainees.
Naturally, the smaller a group, the higher the death percentage rate in comparison, even if they lose technically fewer numbers than say the Wall Troops.
Lastly, Irwin's Speech - that's NOT the usual way real life armies recruit. Even the most badass armies in history are mostly composed of soldiers who did not have a choice / did not want to join the army / had no other means of livelihood. Spartans warriors all started out as Child Soldiers.
Scouting League Recruits are given a choice, and they (willingly, with full disclosure of the consequences) chose the path with a 50% mortality rate in the first excursion and 90% death rate in 4 years.
Who do you think is more badass? A warrior forcibly trained from age 7 to be a soldier (and only a soldier) or a teenager who chose the path with a 90% chance of dying in 4 years?
The latter is what the Scouting League is composed of, okay? Men and women who are willing to sacrifice their lives.
Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.There are a lot of tropes I do not agree with the definition of on Tvtropes, but I will follow the definition they set when I add tropes. That is the point, after all. If I have a major problem with it, I ask about it on the forums yadda yadda yadda.
So, while you might consider them a Badass Army, it doesn't fit the Tv Tropes definition.
That said, you could add Men of Sherwood for Rivaille's squad, I guess... They kind of fit.
Honestly, the definition is too narrow (and insulting!). With that definition, even the USA's Continental Army wouldn't count. Probably not a single revolutionary army would count cause they usually, if not always, start out as the underdog and rely heavily on militia.
Also, I expected some degree of interpretation, not must be "100%", not "every" single soldier should be a badass.
Again, still not going to edit any trope page. But if someone tells me that the definition of Badass Army has to be THAT, I am going to disagree.
Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.With that definition, even the USA's Continental Army wouldn't count. Probably not a single revolutionary army would count cause they usually, if not always, start out as the underdog and rely heavily on militia.
It's a trope about fictional devices with a certain, specific purpose (i.e., portraying X army as totes awesome and more awesome than anyone else, y'all). Real-life armies don't have to count, in much the same way as real-life war criminals don't have to fall under the Complete Monster trope for it to be valid as a trope.
edited 14th Jan '13 2:23:54 AM by Iaculus
What's precedent ever done for us?![]()
Insulting? It is not. Just because the Scouting Legion is not a Badass Army does NOT mean that they are not a BADASS ARMY.
You are simply construing that the trope and the phrase "badass army" are the same when they are not.
Hey, you're the one relying on trope technicalities and ignoring the very spirit and meaning of the phrase "BADASS ARMY".
The main reason why I'm very insistent on the matter is that the Scouting League resembles real life Badass Armies more than like 90% of the fictional Badass Armies listed on that page.
A real life army goes through trials, set-backs and BIG loses before it becomes a Badass Army and even when it has attained such high status - 99.99% of its soldiers are NOT elite and YES - are expected to die in battle.
Fiction tends to not only sanitize war and puts it on easy mode (for its supposedly Badass Armies), it glorifies war. THIS manga at the very least does NOT do that. What makes a soldier a Bad Ass is not because he's good at killing people. What makes a soldier a Bad Ass is because he keeps on risking his life for a greater good.
And that's the same Bad Ass criteria for any person in an occupation (police, firemen, etc.) with higher than a average chance of getting killed for the sake of protecting other people.
Since the general consensus seems to be that "Badass Army" means unstoppable force of fictional construct, you may as well list the Titans as a Badass Army.
Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Hey, you're the one relying on trope technicalities and ignoring the very spirit and meaning of the phrase "BADASS ARMY".
Because we're talking about the trope, not the phrase. I am not ignoring the spirit of the phrase, as I have stated, at least twice, that I do think the Scouting Legion are badasses, even just with the act of signing on to a very, very high-risk job. In fact, I do not see why saying the Scouting Legion is not a Badass Army is a mark against them.
laculus also has a relevant post.
The main reason why I'm very insistent on the matter is that the Scouting League resembles real life Badass Armies more than like 90% of the fictional Badass Armies listed on that page.
A trope is a pattern of storytelling. That 90% you mentioned is precisely why the Badass Army page is the way it is— it is the usual. The Scouting Legion emulates RL badasses more, this is is true, and that is also why they do not fit the trope. You could say the Scouting Legion is, at the very least, a more realistic, a more unique take on a badass army.
Fiction tends to not only sanitize war and puts it on easy mode (for its supposedly Badass Armies), it glorifies war. THIS manga at the very least does NOT do that.
Again, a trope is a pattern of storytelling. That easy-mode, supposedly badass army— that's the convention. That's the trope. On a related note, this manga falls under War Is Hell.
What makes a soldier a Bad Ass is not because he's good at killing people. What makes a soldier a Bad Ass is because he keeps on risking his life for a greater good.
What you have to accept is that being very strong can be considered badassery regardless of his intentions.
Since the general consensus seems to be that "Badass Army" means unstoppable force of fictional construct, you may as well list the Titans as a Badass Army.
Actually, they do not fit, because they are not an army in the first place.
edited 14th Jan '13 7:26:23 AM by fillerdude
"Hordes" cannot count as armies?
Anyway, you already admit that the Scouting League is a Badass Army.
Then, why the fuck is only overpowering type of Badass Army allowed to be listed as a Badass Army.
Instead of limiting the definition of the trope, it should be expanded especially since right now - no Real Life Badass Army would qualify (which is ridiculous).
Yeah, I know. I know. Blah blah, we must follow the trope definition.
/resist urge to list Scouting League as subversion of Badass Army.
Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.Just in case I can't keep my inner!historian from "tampering" with the Sn K trope page.
Is an entry (like below) okay?
Badass Army - subverted with the Scouting League, who though are composed of the best and the bravest and the most Bad Ass fighters in the army still die like flies against the Titans.
—-
Inner!Historian - Even if that's okay, it's still not okay!
Inner!Critic - Stop arguing with people on the goddamn internet!
Inner!Historian - No! Reality should not play second fiddle to fantasy!
Inner!Critic - It does NOT matter! Even most historians have the tendency to glorify war.
Inner!Shipper - Just look on the bright side. At least, this isn't a srs bns discussion about ships.
Inner!Critic - YOU STAY OUT OF THIS!
—-
-shuts down computer-
Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.![]()
Hordes do not count as armies, unless we are to use the definition of "a great multitude".
No, I did not admit that the Scouting Legion is a Badass Army. I said that they are a badass army, at least twice; they are not the trope.
Then, why the fuck is only overpowering type of Badass Army allowed to be listed as a Badass Army
Not even the case. You are free to edit as you please; in fact, the main page of SnK already qualifies the Scouting Legion for Badass Army for being "dual-wielding, building-swinging swordsmen" and because of how easy it is for them to die.
See? Another person thought the Scouting Legion was a Badass Army, and apparently those are the qualifiers.
Instead of limiting the definition of the trope, it should be expanded especially since right now - no Real Life Badass Army would qualify (which is ridiculous).
Then expand it. Provide a definition you find appropriate, and let others assess it. No one is stopping you from doing so.
Also, again, what laculus said. Read it.
Yeah, I know. I know. Blah blah, we must follow the trope definition.
Now you reduce me to a blubbering idiot.
Besides, the definition is the trope. We could rename Badass Army to Elite Army, Kill Everything Army, even Experts Of Carnage, and it would still be the same thing.
The Red Stapler does not (necessarily) mean a red stapler, it means a situation in a movie which creates a RL demand for a good or service.
And so on. The point is: don't get hung up on the trope name, as it is not the trope itself.
/resist urge to list Scouting League as subversion of Badass Army.
You should probably read up on Subverted Trope as well.
Also: Reality should not play second fiddle to fantasy!
It's not about what's realistic. It's about what's used in stories.
edited 14th Jan '13 8:40:00 AM by fillerdude
Pfft! PFFT!
Since the Badass Army issue is still making me see red (and actually making me lose sleep), I'm just going to force-ignore the whole effing matter. Though henceforth, I may on occasion snark about (faux) Badass Armies.
—-
Inner!Historian: WE WILL NOT SURRENDER!
Inner!Critic: SHUT UP! NO MORE ARGUING ON THE FUCKING INTERNET!
Inner!Historian: WHOEVER WRITES THE HISTORY BOOKS CONTROLS HISTORY!
Inner!Critic: THIS ISN'T ABOUT HISTORY! IT'S ABOUT EFFING SEMANTICS!
Inner!Shipper: Can you two stop it with the Capslock? I couldn't even dream about Hanji X Rivaille last night because of you two argumentative sons of bitches.
Inner!Linguist: I don't even want to know what's going on.
Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.THIS ISN'T ABOUT HISTORY! IT'S ABOUT EFFING SEMANTICS!
If all you gathered from my arguments is that I'm being OC about semantics (which I'm not, and frankly just you being condescending), then let me clear it up for you:
Let's start with how tropes are constructed. First, we identify a pattern in stories, which we then define, and then name.
In the case of Badass Army:
- We read a bunch of stuff and found out that lots of stories had armies consisting mostly of hypercompetent soldiers.
- We then define it as "There is not a single soldier who can not hold his own in a fight. They are extremely likely to be all, or mostly, super soldiers and have a high likelihood to have been raised in The Spartan Way. They will not use Hollywood Tactics like amateurs" and so on.
- Only then do we name it a Badass Army. For some reason.
Get it?
Pushing for the Scouting Legion to be defined as a Badass Army is not pushing for them to be recognized as badass. It's pushing for them to be defined as an army consisting of overpowered soldiers.
Something tells me you missed the point of what I was saying again; otherwise you wouldn't have thought that our definitions differ.
Not to mention that it would fine to agree to disagree were the subject matter not objective.
But oh well. I tried to explain the best I can.
edited 15th Jan '13 5:36:21 AM by fillerdude
I do get it. Badass Army is like Nice Guy (TM). Yeah, the trope has lost 100% of its shininess to me.
—-
Inner!Critic: No! No! No! Just don't touch the page at all!
Inner!Shipper: What just happened?
Inner!Linguist: I just told H that it this version of Badass Army was like Nice Guy (TM), and now he wants the trope off the page.
Inner!Shipper: And people say Shipping is incomprehensible.
Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.I'm starting to feel a wee bit bothered about the number of Titans in that group.
Edit: Do NOT click on link below if you don't want spoilers.
http://papermoon2.tumblr.com/post/42654535063/shingeki-no-kyojin-42
edited 9th Feb '13 1:45:42 AM by probablyinsane
Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Oh no.
Those Two Guys have just lost a ton of cool points with yours truly. It's related to the problem I (still) have with Ymir. They didn't even try to help the Scouting League seniors who were doing all they can to save their and the trainees' asses. Lol. Those two also didn't try to help Ymir though I guess they can be forgiven on that cause she ate their childhood friend.
Also having hard time "dealing" with the fact that 4 of the top ten grads are Titans. It would even have been 5 had Ymir not maneuvered to make sure that Christa got the last spot.
edited 9th Feb '13 8:13:58 PM by probablyinsane
Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.Latest chapter makes me feel more "mad" than sad. I like(d) Those Two Guys . Unlike Ymir and Annie, they did act like they were on humanity's side. Well, at the very least, on the side of the portion of humanity which isn't using the rest of humanity as meat shields.
Reiner especially makes me 2/3rds mad and 1/3rd WHY?!
Now, for the things I like about the chapter. I like how (reasonably) fast Mikasa reacted, not because I want Reiner dead but because her reaction was just right. She waited until Reiner moved threateningly towards Eren before attacking.
I also like how realistic sharp-dull those blades are. At the very least, this story doesn't make swords ridiculously overpowered.
Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.

Those seniors were badass alright. So? I can point out the nameless ones who just died. One even fed himself a bullet.
I don't know how you're missing the point. 90% of the Scouting Legion die. Therefore, it is difficult to call them a Badass Army because we cannot assess the badassery of that 90%.