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Shingeki no Kyojin/Attack on Titan (Manga Discussion)

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Feb 23rd 2021 at 12:44:35 PM

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No, and I didn't say that I did. I said that the implication of the Cycle of Hatred, as presented in the manga, is that the Jews (Eldians) oppressed the Germans (Marley), and the Germans oppressed the Jews in turn. Which is not what happened.

It implies a distorted view of actual history. I'm not saying Eldians deserve it, but in the case of this universe, their ancestors actually did the things they are blamed for. Instead of it being entirely myth.

It wouldn't be a problem if he didn't appropriate Holocaust imagery, and invite the comparison himself.

Edited by SilentColossus on Feb 23rd 2021 at 3:53:38 PM

HandsomeRob High Priest of the Holey Brotherhood! from Holey Brotherhood Lair Relationship Status: My elf kissing days are over
High Priest of the Holey Brotherhood!
Feb 23rd 2021 at 1:18:54 PM

I kinda skipped ahead, so I'm not sure if we're still on it, but in regards to what Paradis could have done to escape getting shitstomped by the world beyond shitstomping the world first....

They could have tried the crazy idea of faking their own deaths on a country sized level.

Like, if something happens that wipes out the island but every survives and just assimilates into the cultures of the world, what's the world gonna do? Not like you can physically tell the difference between an Eldian and and a non Eldian right?

Of course, faking the dead for that many people is likely impractical, so this is a stupid plan by default, but at the point they were at, anything was probably a better option than nuke or be nuked.

Read this post for my first theory, and this post for my second one.
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
Feb 23rd 2021 at 1:26:42 PM

Well, the Founding Titan has full control over Eldian bodies at max power, right? Could've faked a plague or something that came over every Eldian and killed them all. The problem is that the rest of the world would've come for Paradis' resources (given that that was the main reason for the invasion to begin with) so they'd need to find somewhere else to live.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Feb 23rd 2021 at 1:27:06 PM

Or, the one people with a brain like Armin expected: Partial rumbling, getting the Shingashina titans out of the wall, then going "okay, let's stop and rethink this; we don't want to get exterminated due to sins of our ancestors and a bullshit imperialistic dynamic that has been going for too long, and you don't want to get eroded away. How about we drop the bullshit and start acting like actual nations?"

Then again, Marley kinda wasn't prone to talking stuff out.

doineedaname from Eastern US
Feb 23rd 2021 at 1:30:31 PM

[up][up][up] They can tell the difference via blood tests. It was mentioned that the recent advances in technology was resulting in the discovery of more and more who had escaped internment.

So that's not actually Crazy Enough to Work. tongue

Edited by doineedaname on Feb 23rd 2021 at 4:38:08 AM

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
Feb 23rd 2021 at 1:48:57 PM

Actually Handsome Rob and Nintey, gave me an idea.

The Founding Titan can change Eldian bodies so maybe with its power they can change Eldian bodies to the point where blood tests won't work to differentiate them from everyone else.

@Erior Maybe not Marley but there are other countries in the world besides Marley.

Edited by MadSkillz on Feb 23rd 2021 at 1:50:32 AM

"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
Feb 23rd 2021 at 1:53:43 PM

I think Eriorguez is right: the partial Rumbling was the "horrible but maybe better than the alternatives" solution, at least in the short term (and surviving the short term is step one in every long term solution).

Problem is, Eren is not operating out of cold rationality, no matter how much he fakes it. He's lashing out at the world and its injustice, without realizing that he's turning into the next iteration of the cycle, and that the ones who are now oppressors went through a similar journey.

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
Feb 23rd 2021 at 1:57:45 PM

I'd say he very much realizes. He's nothing if not aware of his crimes.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Feb 23rd 2021 at 2:00:58 PM

Hmm, maybe "realize" was the wrong choice of word. He probably does realize it, but he's so far gone emotionally that he's doing it anyway. In a way, what he's doing is a murder-suicide on a global scale. He can't bear to live in such an unfair and unfree world, but as it happens, he does have the power to bring the whole world down with him.

Edited by Cozzer on Feb 23rd 2021 at 11:02:03 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
Feb 23rd 2021 at 2:03:44 PM

I think the Paradox is that Eren knows what he's doing is wrong, but feels like he HAS to when he could have reasonably stopped at any time.

But to Eren, not moving forward is the same as surrendering. His determination is his biggest strength, but it's also why he's the monster that he is now.

Few times a Shonen protagonist's dogged Determinator status is actually a flaw as much as it a virtue.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
slimcoder King Shark is a Shark
King Shark is a Shark
Feb 23rd 2021 at 2:05:22 PM

He's a warrior, no road but the one that leads to the end.

Because all you can do is just keeping moving forward as Reiner once told him.

"It's been an honor to fight by your side."
doineedaname from Eastern US
Feb 23rd 2021 at 2:09:39 PM

[up][up][up] I'd say its more that he can't bear to condemn people to being breed as sacrifices for the Titans. Especially if you believe hes the father of Historia's child.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
Feb 23rd 2021 at 2:12:21 PM

And ironically, Reiner wishes he stopped moving forward and just wants to end his life, but circumstances conspire that he continues to live.

It's kind why I hope Eren lives, not because I'm rooting for him, but I want him to live with what he's done. I want him to live with the fact that he was willing to go so far for what was honestly a pretty short sighted goal. If he died, then he would die with no regrets and won't allow him to face what he's done and his friends would have to clean up his mess.

Eren seems ok with a Mercy Kill from his friends, but that won't force him to own what he's done.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Feb 23rd 2021 at 2:17:23 PM

I think Eren is pushing so far on it as because if he stops it will crush him like it crushed Reiner.

Thats why I ascribed to the idea that some level what Eren is actually trying to do even if he won't admit it out loud is commit murder-suicide on the entire world as he considers everyone too far gone anyways. Considering how Ymir's whole life and how she seems to be partially aiding him in this course I can see where this comes from. The whole existence of the Subjects of Ymir was from the start a tragedy and it only got worse from there.

I don't agree with anything Eren is doing but I can see where he got his conclusions from.

Edited by Wispy on Feb 23rd 2021 at 2:18:08 AM

doineedaname from Eastern US
Feb 23rd 2021 at 2:27:00 PM

I don't believe he's going for a murder suicide because of how he's set up as Zekes antithesis and he let himself be killed for the greater good. Eren wants to live and wont allow those who would deny him life for their benefit to kill him and those he cares about.

Edited by doineedaname on Feb 23rd 2021 at 5:29:18 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
Feb 23rd 2021 at 2:27:07 PM

Reiner has to keep on living for the sake of the likes of Falco and Gabi, so they don't go down the same path as him and why he's come so far.

Similarly, if that child is Eren's, and he was forced to live with the same guilt. That's the topping of the irony cake.

Two men who have committed more sins than they can count are forced to live with them to make sure who comes after doesn't repeat them.

As Eren said, they're the same. I kind of hope for Reiner to echo the same sentiment.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Feb 23rd 2021 at 5:28:30 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Feb 23rd 2021 at 2:39:51 PM

And Reiner is at ground zero too...

I really want to get these 2 last chapters.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
Feb 23rd 2021 at 3:16:13 PM

It's kind why I hope Eren lives, not because I'm rooting for him, but I want him to live with what he's done. I want him to live with the fact that he was willing to go so far for what was honestly a pretty short sighted goal. If he died, then he would die with no regrets and won't allow him to face what he's done and his friends would have to clean up his mess.

Disagree here. Living allows Eren to heal and I don't think Eren deserves that chance to be honest.

Also Eren is full of regrets and he should die with them.

I don't believe he's going for a murder suicide because of how he's set up as Zekes antithesis and he let himself be killed for the greater good. Eren wants to live and wont allow those who would deny him life for their benefit to kill him and those he cares about.

I definitely think Eren is going for a murder-suicide because...well..the story via Reiner says Eren is doing just that two different times in the same chapter.

First time Reiner brings it up, then Eren brings them all to Paths and then Reiner says that that interaction with Eren confirmed his theory about Eren.

Eren's not going to be able to bear all this guilt so he wants to be put of his own misery.

Edited by MadSkillz on Feb 23rd 2021 at 3:23:10 AM

"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
Feb 23rd 2021 at 3:32:08 PM

All the more reason for Eren to live. If he dies, he gets what he wants.

You know how in "Eragon" everyone cries 'a single tear'? Yeah, just TRY that in "One Piece" and see if it works. - Formerly Narm Charm
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
Feb 23rd 2021 at 3:35:29 PM

@sgamer Yes but that's pretty much what Grisha said would happen. It'd all go Eren's way.

And to be honest, Eren living means that Mikasa never gets over Eren. She'll forever orbit him as long as he's around.

That said, I'm not sure if Eren even has the chance to live past the Rumbling anymore considering that he's just a head and spine now while the Founding Centipede has been fully destroyed.

And that story has emphasized over and over again, that his friends are going to have make the decision to kill Eren. Mikasa has been the only one that hasn't crossed that line by trying that but now I feel this is her perfect chance.

Edited by MadSkillz on Feb 23rd 2021 at 3:38:19 AM

"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
doineedaname from Eastern US
Feb 23rd 2021 at 3:49:21 PM

[up][up][up] Paraphrasing another person here but Reiner before that is shown unable to comprehend why Eren would continue fighting when he thinks for Eren to give up, that he'll end it for him and to just sleep. Reiner is actually pretty similar to Zeke in his ideas and like Zeke he is just projecting what he wants onto Eren because Eren because he can't truly understand why Eren would come to such a different conclusion.

Eren has already rejected giving up and letting himself die, first with his "dream" in Trost when his Titan wouldn't work. And again he was in the Crystal Cave with Rod and Historia. Because he was born into this world and will never stop fighting to keep living in this world.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
Feb 23rd 2021 at 3:50:55 PM

Do you honestly think Eren can just live with what he's done and have no guilt whatsoever? Because that's a pretty gross misrepresentation of the narrative imo.

And while I'm not gonna write her off, I think its way too late to give Mikasa any kind of pathos and have it mean something this late into the game. The story never seemed too interested in doing much with her, and while it would be nice to see her actually get over her devotion, I also don't feel like it would have the emotional weight.

But that's just my opinion. I personally think it's better for Eren to live with his guilt in Cruel Mercy sort of way, cuz naw he's not gonna heal from that, no matter how much time passes.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
Feb 23rd 2021 at 3:55:25 PM

Unless you think Eren's actually willing to directly kill his friends, he's already told them to kill him. Hell, he's letting them run free with their Titan powers so they have the chance to kill him.

I know he's spouted about how he's not gonna take their freedom away but it's also kind of bullshit since he's locked them in prison before.

"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
doineedaname from Eastern US
Feb 23rd 2021 at 4:00:25 PM

[up][up] I think he can live it, that it'd be painful for him but he doesn't want to die which is why he's doing all this to begin with.

[up] And I'd say its not bullshit, he's letting them try to kill him solely because he won't take their freedom. Even locking them in prison still leaves them free to choose what to do, give up or keep fighting.

Edited by doineedaname on Feb 23rd 2021 at 7:01:10 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
Feb 23rd 2021 at 4:00:31 PM

Wasn't that the Yaegerists and his orders specifically?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

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