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Naughty Tentacles rewriting/restoration

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Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#1: Aug 29th 2012 at 4:48:05 PM

This has been brought over from the Content Violations subforum from those who wish to see Naughty Tentacles restored. Currently, the trope has been cut with a custom message applied to the page urging us to keep discussion of the issue clean. I'd go to the Trope Repair Shop except I think we need to do some more discussion on this first. If a mod feels it ought to be over there then feel free to move it.

So, the first thing we need to do is settle whether this is actually a pornographic trope in its entirety. If not, we need to find a working definition that excludes the use of this trope in hentai and keeps the page more or less clean. Once we have a clean working definition we can probably grab any similarly clean examples off of the page, cut everything else and simply lock it. Or, if we want to be entirely safe, we could simply make it a no examples page.

Also, we will probably need a new name if this is to be restored. I honestly don't really remember why but there seemed to be agreement on that. Note that any action along the lines of restoration and renaming requires consensus that this is not, in fact, merely a porn trope.

Also, I'm just going to say this now and save us some time, but if you wish to protest the P5 stuff this really isn't the place.

Jordan Azor Ahai from Westeros Since: Jan, 2001
Azor Ahai
#2: Aug 29th 2012 at 4:53:17 PM

Well, I think there are sort of two possible tropes that could be created. First would be Tentacle Monster and would deal with this stock kind of creature.

Second is what I guess I would call Genitalicles (think that is what Futurama called them) and examples could include this phenomena in anime (and all the jokes about it) as well as the Centauri of Babylon5.

In any case though, the page should probably be locked and examples submitted by request.

edited 29th Aug '12 4:54:39 PM by Jordan

Hodor
KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#3: Aug 29th 2012 at 5:03:17 PM

I think a problem here is that it's not necessarily a porn/hentai trope, but it started out as one and that's how it got its implications. The trope was called Naughty Tentacles because their threatening presence and often use on female characters is because of their origin in tentacle rape hentai.

In any case, if comes back in some form it should probably be locked to make sure it doesn't become problematic again.

Morganite Something strange... from Dynamis - Firefly Alley Since: May, 2012
Something strange...
#4: Aug 29th 2012 at 5:06:23 PM

Well, it's definitely used or referenced in plenty of stuff that's not porn, although it's definitely fanservice most of the time.

Jordan: Then what about tentacles that aren't attached to anything resembling a monster, but aren't apparently genitals? (I think a lot of examples they aren't supposed to really *be* genitals anyway, they just sort of suggest them.)

edited 29th Aug '12 5:09:01 PM by Morganite

"So... the time has come for you to meet your demise..."
32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#5: Aug 29th 2012 at 6:57:24 PM

Here's something I've been wondering for a while... is there maybe a less sexually charged Tentacle Attack trope that we have? I'm thinking of the implied instance of this that happens to Deadpool in the intro movie to Marvel Vs Capcom 3 - beyond the fact that they don't actually show one of Morrigan's tentacles going up DP's glutes, it seems that a well-policed page about when folks are menaced in some fashion by tentacles could cover all cases. We'd just have to make sure it didn't get overly lascivious.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
shadis Since: Jun, 2012
#6: Aug 29th 2012 at 6:58:21 PM

I like the tropes Jordan came up with they are straightforward and clearly defined, we can also add a sub-trope of tentacle monster referring to the off screen verity which I believe is common enough to be its own trope.

Note: The name change is necessary because it was THE page responsible for the second Google incident.

KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#7: Aug 29th 2012 at 7:10:20 PM

There's Combat Tentacles for when tentacles are used for attacking with no sexual implications.

Nocturna Since: May, 2011
#8: Aug 29th 2012 at 8:32:45 PM

I also agree that Jordan's definitions are too narrow. Not all tentacles are connected to monsters per se, nor do they necessarily resemble genitals.

One clean examples I can think of was the tentacle vines in one episode of Code Lyoko (it's been too long since I've watched it to name the precise episode or even the season, although I'm pretty sure it wasn't the first or last season): they served as plain Tentacle Rope for the guys, but they were a bit more slithery on Yumi (female), clearly suggesting the hentai stereotype (for those familiar with the concept, anyway) without actually crossing any lines into lasciviousness—the most "explicit" it got was one of the tentacles sliding across her stomach under her shirt.

edited 29th Aug '12 8:33:02 PM by Nocturna

DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#9: Aug 30th 2012 at 9:59:05 PM

[up][up][up][up], and [up][up] Plus there is Tentacle Rope.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#10: Aug 31st 2012 at 9:10:47 AM

Okay... so if we have Combat Tentacles for rope-like appendages that attack in general, and we cannot have an article on tentacles used in a sexual manner, what would go on a Naughty Tentacles page? Or am I misunderstanding what is and is not allowed regarding sexualized tentacles?

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#11: Aug 31st 2012 at 9:12:53 AM

Sexualized tentacles are likely allowed, unless I am missing the point of the Sex Tropes index.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#12: Aug 31st 2012 at 9:16:07 AM

This is the article that got our Google income shut off for months, costing us thousands in lost revenue, and you guys are in a huge rush to put it back? WTF?

edited 31st Aug '12 9:16:24 AM by FastEddie

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#13: Aug 31st 2012 at 9:20:50 AM

Wasn't it the links on the page that got the ads shut down? Keeping them out is what a page lock is for, not the Cut List.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#14: Aug 31st 2012 at 9:22:04 AM

No, it was the examples the thing attracted. The links didn't help.

edited 31st Aug '12 9:22:18 AM by FastEddie

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#15: Aug 31st 2012 at 9:41:54 AM

@12 covers what I was really wondering. We have a trope covering non-sexual tentacle attacks. We obviously can't trope any porn with tentacle sex. What's left? As is, everything that I can think of that could go on a page is just some combination of Combat Tentacles, Tentacle Rope, Ass Shove, and/or Does This Remind You of Anything?. Wouldn't it just be worth it to just cite to those tropes instead?

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#16: Aug 31st 2012 at 9:44:22 AM

ETA: Since it was a bit wrong: I don't think that the issue is in tropability. And previous Naughty Tentacles wasn't just about the porn.

Also, if you are thinking the trope is a combination of 4 tropes, chances are it's not redundant to these.

The issue is simply one to avoid the same problems that got it cut. A lock will be necessary under any circumstances. For the examples, either none or only mod-vetted ones.

edited 31st Aug '12 9:50:09 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#17: Aug 31st 2012 at 10:15:41 AM

Well, we're not in a huge rush. Debate over this has been postponed for months and we're only just now dealing with it. I think it's entirely reasonable that should the page be restored (which isn't guaranteed) that it would be locked to keep out the creepy edits.

Combat Tentacles is non sexual tentacle usage. Okay, fine. Tentacle Rope is similarly okay. The origins of Naughty Tentacles are not okay at all but it seems to me that Naughty Tentacles doesn't have to be pornographic because it doesn't necessarily get any more explicit than, say, minor Clothing Damage. In fact, it often seems to be played for laughs in that case.

edited 31st Aug '12 10:16:24 AM by Arha

32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#18: Aug 31st 2012 at 11:02:20 AM

I don't think that Naughty Tentacles is a combination of the tropes that I previously mentioned. I think that any version of said trope that we can put up as of now (due to current wiki policies forced upon us by The Second Google Incident) would be. Also, I worry about the hair-splitting involved in determining whether Clothing Damage is allowable sexualized content.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#19: Sep 2nd 2012 at 4:19:35 AM

I can think of at least two cases where the trope can still be present in non-pornographic works.

1: Combat Tentacles or Tentacle Rope that are played for fanservice or used to imply something naughty. An example would be the former page image: it was not from a porno, nor was it actually pornographic, but it was definitely tentacles played for fanservice. 2: It's enough of a cliche to be fairly standard for Noodle Incidents and otherwise joked about. When Girl Genius mentions an "impertinent mechanical squid!", no more needs to be said because everyone knows the punchline to any joke involving a squid.

That said, the page should definitely be locked and image-free at the very least, because while it's a legitimate trope, it's also a trouble magnet.

Blatch :- from New Hampshire Since: Nov, 2009
:-
#20: Sep 2nd 2012 at 3:22:18 PM

For the most part, I do agree with Fast Eddie here. We can have all sorts of tropes related to tentacles if we wanted to, but if it has sexual connotations in any way, we'd be in serious trouble.

I, for one, am not in the mood to see how we can do it, because I have a feeling it could end badly.

My Tumblr: http://the-pinking-shears.tumblr.com/
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#21: Sep 2nd 2012 at 3:32:40 PM

Naughty Tentacles didn't get us in trouble. Its examples did. Big difference: For example, the proper answer is page locking and not page cutting.

Now if the argument is "This trope brought our site almost to demise. Do we really like it so much that we want to restore it so quickly?", I'd be a bit more supportive.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#22: Sep 2nd 2012 at 3:34:29 PM

[up][up][up]I'm sorry, but I don't see any positive purpose in creating a page for type 1 there.

Type 2 could be passable as a stock joke trope, maybe.

[up]Also, this. I just don't see why it's really necessary to recreate a trope - that's kind of skeezy in the best of circumstances - which led directly to the Second Google Incident or whatever it's being called.

edited 2nd Sep '12 3:35:54 PM by nrjxll

Morganite Something strange... from Dynamis - Firefly Alley Since: May, 2012
Something strange...
#23: Sep 2nd 2012 at 9:17:47 PM

I don't see what makes this inherently different from all the other sex and fanservice tropes.

"So... the time has come for you to meet your demise..."
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#24: Sep 3rd 2012 at 2:31:38 AM

Inherently? Not a thing. Practically? We're facing Executive Meddling from our advertisers, who don't really care what is actually happening on our site so much as what self-appointed Moral Guardians are saying about it.

So both sides should probably take the net-rage down a few notches. I don't see why anyone's surprised that the first response of Internet users to this change was to see it as enemy action and try to immediately find a workaround, but equally, Eddie was not acting in bad faith when he acted to protect the site.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#25: Sep 3rd 2012 at 6:14:25 AM

I don't believe we're saying Fast Eddie was acting in bad faith and I'd really rather we didn't pursue that line of conversation. The question is whether this trope has a clean form we can restore to now that things have calmed down and Content Violations has largely been cleared up.


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