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Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
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#1: Aug 22nd 2012 at 3:56:53 PM

Exactly What It Says on the Tin

Inspired by some of the other Let's build threads that have popped up on TV Tropes, I've decided to see if anyone would be interested in creating a setting/world without a label attached to it. It's not fantasy, not sci-fi, it just is.

I figure this would be keep the setting a) open to new ideas, and b) less limiting as we don't have the it needs X to work.

This would just be an open setting for people to base, stories in but also a nice world building experiment. So anyone interested?

edited 22nd Aug '12 3:57:19 PM by Vyctorian

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Matues Impossible Gender Forge Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
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#2: Aug 22nd 2012 at 3:59:22 PM

Sure.

I like world building.

kassyopeia from terrae nullius Since: Nov, 2010
#3: Aug 22nd 2012 at 4:25:24 PM

I still really like the idea I posted about here: A civilization on the far side of a tidally locked moon who doesn't know that they are, in fact, on a moon, because they've never been to the other hemisphere and so have never seen the planet they are orbiting.

It's an awesome analogy for science and philosophy overlooking something fundamental simply because nobody realizes there is something to be looked for.

I'm not using it myself. The drawback is that "have never been to the other hemisphere" limits technological development to medieval-equivalent at best. And, based on the number of replies I got, nobody else seems to like it, which I suppose is a drawback as well. tongue

Soon the Cold One took flight, yielded Goddess and field to the victor: The Lord of the Light.
Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
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#4: Aug 22nd 2012 at 4:50:58 PM

Well that's more established, I was thinking we keep it more raw at first and open.

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Matues Impossible Gender Forge Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
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#5: Aug 22nd 2012 at 4:52:57 PM

How about a Square World?

edited 22nd Aug '12 4:53:14 PM by Matues

Matrix Since: Jan, 2001
#6: Aug 22nd 2012 at 5:01:35 PM

AND SO DID THE UNIVERSE ESTABLISH x-4=∞, AND THUS WAS SUCH INGRAINED INTO PHYSICAL LAW, AND IT WAS GOOD.

edited 22nd Aug '12 5:01:47 PM by Matrix

Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
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#7: Aug 22nd 2012 at 5:06:01 PM

Physicspunk lol

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Zenoseiya Since: Jan, 2001
#8: Aug 22nd 2012 at 5:15:19 PM

How about a planet where the tectonic plates orbit around the core, resulting in floating continents and airships being the main method of travel? Furthermore, what about tectonic plates orbiting above and below one another similar to the shells of a Hollow Earth?

Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
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#9: Aug 22nd 2012 at 6:34:39 PM

I like that idea.

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Zenoseiya Since: Jan, 2001
#10: Aug 22nd 2012 at 7:17:50 PM

Creating "levels" of continents has one big implication: the shadows of continents can severely affect day and night cycles on continents below them.

Also, what IS the core? Is it a ball of fire? A black hole? A Jupiter brain?

edited 22nd Aug '12 7:18:02 PM by Zenoseiya

kassyopeia from terrae nullius Since: Nov, 2010
#11: Aug 22nd 2012 at 7:43:16 PM

Well that's more established, I was thinking we keep it more raw at first and open.

Oh, I just meant the core idea, not any of the specifics from my other thread - living on a moon without knowing about the planet. I find the idea very appealing, for some reason, but it definitely doesn't fit into my own setting, so I thought I'd try to donate it to someone else... tongue

Soon the Cold One took flight, yielded Goddess and field to the victor: The Lord of the Light.
kassyopeia from terrae nullius Since: Nov, 2010
#12: Aug 22nd 2012 at 8:00:02 PM

[up][up] How about an accretion disk around a black hole as a marginally scientifically sound version of that idea? You'd need something to continually add new "continents" at the rim, which orbit the black hole at that distance. Every once in a while, they bump into each other (earthquake?) and thus lose a bit of their orbital energy, which makes them move to a slightly tighter orbit, and so on. At some point, the collisions would become so frequent that the continent begins to fragment - old civilizations would very literally crumble, and have to find a new continent (conflict potential). At some point much farther in, there's only dust left, and yet farther in the dust gets friction-heated to the point at which it emits thermal and visible radiation, which can be utilized as the primary energy source by the continents farther out.

The big advantage is that this could plausibly have an atmosphere.

It's a bit similar to Niven's gas torus, admittedly.

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#13: Aug 22nd 2012 at 9:21:00 PM

You know, speaking of ideas for planets, I once heard about a story where the Sun gets destroyed and Jupiter becomes the Solar System's new Sun. Does anybody know the story's name? I'd very much appreciate it, thanks. :)

On that note, what would having Jupiter for the Sun be like?

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Kotep Since: Jan, 2001
#14: Aug 22nd 2012 at 9:39:41 PM

[up] Earth would be much further out (4 AU compared to 1 AU) and would probably be quite a bit colder. Plus, you'd have to have Jupiter be somewhere on the level of 50-100 times more massive than it is now in order for it to have enough mass to start a thermonuclear reaction.

Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
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#15: Aug 23rd 2012 at 2:41:21 AM

If need be it doesn't have to side as hard on Mohs scale

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Zenoseiya Since: Jan, 2001
#16: Aug 23rd 2012 at 8:02:16 AM

[up][up][up][up] If we're going to have floating continents, we don't have to make them follow real-world physics. We're trying to make a label-less setting, so using bad science just puts it in the science fiction category.

Here's a thought: the world has gone through dozens of dark ages, leading to the current civilizations being at very different Technology Levels due to scavenging or preserving Lost Technology. In one place you have a Steampunk victorian civilization, and in another you have Ancient Egypt-expies with cellphones, and in another you have samurai-cowboys with bayonet rifles. There's also the ever-present threat of Sky Pirates and flying sharks and Space Whales.

Just for the weirdness factor, there are three suns, seven moons, and a gas giant in the lavender sky.

edited 23rd Aug '12 8:29:21 AM by Zenoseiya

kassyopeia from terrae nullius Since: Nov, 2010
#17: Aug 23rd 2012 at 9:12:54 AM

[...] using bad science just puts it in the science fiction category.

I don't mean to derail the thread, but this is an intriguing claim that I'd like to investigate a bit. I'd have said that having bad science still leaves it non-specific, and that it only becomes science fiction once the author introduces technobabble to (supposedly) explain the bad science. As long as it's only seen through the eyes of the characters, can't any type of fictional setting be used in any type of Speculative Fiction?

Soon the Cold One took flight, yielded Goddess and field to the victor: The Lord of the Light.
Zenoseiya Since: Jan, 2001
#18: Aug 23rd 2012 at 10:17:03 AM

A floating continent planet is physically impossible as it is. We don't need to have any scientific-sounding justification, especially if it's not going to be mentioned in the story itself.

EDIT: Just to be contrary, I'll like the suggest that we instead use the idea that the Earth is flat, and the sky is painted on, like in the beliefs of medieval theologians.

edited 23rd Aug '12 10:28:37 AM by Zenoseiya

Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
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#19: Aug 23rd 2012 at 10:39:24 AM

Since this is a setting not a story I don't think we'll have any issues there.

[up] Actually that idea that they believed in that, was made up later on. The majority of Europe believed the earth was round and has for close to 2000.

edited 23rd Aug '12 10:46:39 AM by Vyctorian

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Zenoseiya Since: Jan, 2001
#20: Aug 23rd 2012 at 11:22:11 AM

To be fair, a floating continent planet with a Jupiter brain at the center is the setting of Septerra Core. If you want ideas, you could buy it on GOG.com.

EDIT: If you really want a setting that is truly label-less, you could use surrealist art as a backdrop. For an example, here's a short film based on the art of Beksinski.

edited 23rd Aug '12 11:24:38 AM by Zenoseiya

Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
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#21: Aug 23rd 2012 at 1:24:51 PM

Super Mario Bros, has to be one of the greatest surrealists works ever.

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kassyopeia from terrae nullius Since: Nov, 2010
#22: Aug 23rd 2012 at 1:29:43 PM

We don't need to have any scientific-sounding justification, especially if it's not going to be mentioned in the story itself.

I guess the distinction I'm talking about is one between bad science as an inspiration and bad science as a justification. Like using a Dyson Sphere as the setting for a Medieval fantasy epic (without ever calling it a Dyson Sphere), rather than going with one of the more traditionally improbable settings like a plate-world on top of a turtle or a Sun that's really a divine chariot. Why should one feel bound by the conventions that assign certain types of settings to certain sub-genres?

Soon the Cold One took flight, yielded Goddess and field to the victor: The Lord of the Light.
Zenoseiya Since: Jan, 2001
#23: Aug 23rd 2012 at 2:30:25 PM

[up]Sure, you can use it as inspiration, but we don't need the details, nor do we need to obey physics.

Just to hammer that point home, let's say that all seven moons are made of varying types of cheese and magically preserve themselves. Each one also has a different face: one has a skull, another has a face that's screaming and raving, and another has a face that just gouged out its own eyes and constantly weeps rivers of human blood, and another has the silhouette of a mouse.

If we really want to have a label-less setting, we need to go all out!

Vyctorian ◥▶◀◤ from Domhain Sceal Since: Mar, 2011
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#24: Aug 23rd 2012 at 2:36:09 PM

[up] I don't think label-less means we need to pull from everything and all the things. I just meant that so that we don't get the "This is fantasy now, Fantasy needs X" people raving about, we need some semblance of structure.

edited 23rd Aug '12 2:36:40 PM by Vyctorian

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kassyopeia from terrae nullius Since: Nov, 2010
#25: Aug 23rd 2012 at 3:26:58 PM

If we really want to have a label-less setting, we need to go all out!

At last, I see where you're coming from. I interpreted the term more along the lines of [up] - a generic setting which could accomodate all kinds of Spec-Fic (all those which don't implicitly demand a particular settings, that is) equally well. But, yes, from the point of view you just presented, I can see that "generic" doesn't quite cut it... smile

Soon the Cold One took flight, yielded Goddess and field to the victor: The Lord of the Light.

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