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Not Tropeworthy (Crowner 3 Aug 2012): Cult Actor

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#26: Aug 5th 2012 at 9:23:26 AM

It's pretty near unanimous

abk0100 Since: Aug, 2011
#27: Aug 5th 2012 at 9:47:33 AM

Okay, fine, so leave it example-less. We can still benefit from having a page for this.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#28: Aug 5th 2012 at 9:54:55 AM

With no crowner option, it's unlikely to work.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#29: Aug 5th 2012 at 9:56:47 AM

[up]Not exactly hard to fix.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#31: Aug 5th 2012 at 11:27:08 PM

why what?

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#32: Aug 7th 2012 at 10:47:18 AM

Even with the new option, it still seems near-unanimous

Ironeye Cutmaster-san from SoCal Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
#33: Aug 7th 2012 at 12:03:45 PM

The crowner has been open for four days, including a full 24 hour period on a weekday, and it shows an overwhelming majority believe the page is not salvageable. Calling in favor of a cut. Cutlist the page, then Holler for a lock.

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
Indigo12ash from Aperture Science Since: Feb, 2012
#34: Aug 7th 2012 at 12:04:17 PM

We need to wipe out a whomping 18 wicks if we cut it, which is looking like what's going to happen.

Momentum, a function of mass and velocity, is conserved between portals. In layman's terms: speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out.
lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#35: Aug 7th 2012 at 12:18:00 PM

Not anymore. wink Your turn, Cutmaster-san.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
abk0100 Since: Aug, 2011
#36: Aug 7th 2012 at 12:38:50 PM

Sorry, I wasn't clear before. Why are we cutting this?

I'm honestly not trying to reverse the decision, I really do just want to know "What's wrong with having a page describing the concept of cult actors?"

animeg3282 Since: Jan, 2001
#37: Aug 7th 2012 at 12:45:23 PM

well....it's not a trope. And it isn't really a useful note either.

abk0100 Since: Aug, 2011
#38: Aug 7th 2012 at 12:53:56 PM

I don't care what namespace it would be in - I'm just asking why the page wouldn't be useful?

AceOfSevens Since: Feb, 2010
#39: Aug 7th 2012 at 1:27:12 PM

[up]Because it isn't describing anything meaningful. It seems to amount to an actor with fans.

CobraPrime Sharknado Warning from Canada Since: Dec, 1969 Relationship Status: Robosexual
Sharknado Warning
#40: Aug 7th 2012 at 3:31:15 PM

I'm just asking why the page wouldn't be useful?

Coz it's defining something pointless? Except for those rare actors who have never acted in anything, including theater, before getting a major break and becoming superstar, EVERY ACTOR was "cult" at some point if you define cult as "Someone likes them". The concept of "Cult Actor" seems pointless since it lacks any kind of measure to define it.

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#41: Aug 7th 2012 at 4:23:21 PM

[up] Exactly.

edited 7th Aug '12 4:25:03 PM by Willbyr

abk0100 Since: Aug, 2011
#42: Aug 7th 2012 at 4:35:23 PM

So everyone who uses the term is just pointlessly wasting their time talking about a meaningless idea? I guess it's good that we're helping to discourage its use then, even if only on our little site.

Doxiedame Since: Dec, 2010
#43: Aug 7th 2012 at 5:31:23 PM

That's not what's being said. There have been many clear reasons people have given already earlier in this thread.

But to sum it up, an actor with a cult following is a very nebulous thing to determine. And judging by the list of actors that was put on the page, everyone has a different definition.

The possibility of cleaning up misuse would be extremely difficult given we're not sure exactly which examples constitute misuse.

In other words, there is no actual difference between this and just a list of actors.

edited 7th Aug '12 5:31:42 PM by Doxiedame

Rule of fanworks reviews: The amount of constructive criticism a work receives is in inverse proportion to the amount it needs.
abk0100 Since: Aug, 2011
#44: Aug 7th 2012 at 5:49:08 PM

I'm not talking about the examples. Removing the examples was also an option in the crowner. It was voted down by 10 people, and no one has explained why. All the arguments against this page are just talking about the examples.

When someone searchs for "cult actor" on TV Tropes, and all they can find about the term is this TRS thread, it would be nice if they could at least see the reasoning behind the decision to not have the page.

edited 7th Aug '12 5:51:15 PM by abk0100

Doxiedame Since: Dec, 2010
#45: Aug 7th 2012 at 5:55:26 PM

Not everyone who votes in these take part in the conversation, so I can hardly speak for the reason they voted the way they did. However, those that DID take part have given their reason for the most part.

If this is about getting people to put a reason when they vote, that's a conversation for the Tech Wishlist forum.

Rule of fanworks reviews: The amount of constructive criticism a work receives is in inverse proportion to the amount it needs.
abk0100 Since: Aug, 2011
#46: Aug 7th 2012 at 5:58:17 PM

Like I said, the only reasons given so far have been about the examples.

CobraPrime Sharknado Warning from Canada Since: Dec, 1969 Relationship Status: Robosexual
Sharknado Warning
#47: Aug 7th 2012 at 6:02:17 PM

No, we gave other argument. Like [up][up][up][up][up]

How would you define cult actor so the definition doesn't apply to everyone? "Actor who isn't liked by everyone but liked by some?" The term is completely meaningless. It can be applied to ANY actor, but there's literally no measure for it. By definition, everyone who isn't a Triple A super star is a "Cult Actor". And even then, one can probably justify AAA actors being "Cult" somehow.

Unlike a Cult Film, which has actual parameters: Usually underperformed when it was released or had a very limited release, but enjoys a popularity years after their release that is sometimes greater than very profitable movies of the same time.

edited 7th Aug '12 6:05:55 PM by CobraPrime

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#48: Aug 7th 2012 at 6:18:51 PM

[up]I'd say any use of the word cult means it's not strictly defined, so it's not very useful for a clear trope. However, some tropes do work without being defined to the last digit. This one just doesn't work. The objective parameters that are there are very weak, and not enough as a definition. Cult film has more objective parameters (sales and commercial value), so it can actually work.

edited 7th Aug '12 6:21:19 PM by AnotherDuck

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abk0100 Since: Aug, 2011
#49: Aug 7th 2012 at 6:24:55 PM

[up][up]So, everyone who uses the term "cult actor" is actually saying absolutely nothing? They're just using a completely meaningless phrase as filler? When I say "Bruce Campbell is a cult actor," I may as well be saying "Bruce Campbell is a dooblety targh," because both sentences convey exactly the same amount of information?

The page had a perfectly reasonable definition: an actor who isn't that popular, but has a cult following. It's used when people want to say "this actor isn't that popular, but has a cult following," but don't want to use so many words.

Since when did "this page doesn't have a strict 100% air-tight foolproof definition" become a reason for cutting a page?

edited 7th Aug '12 6:25:19 PM by abk0100

animeg3282 Since: Jan, 2001
#50: Aug 7th 2012 at 6:26:49 PM

There are words with meaning but which are too vague to really build a trope around. It's like Black Haired Girl. Yes, that means something, but why do we care about a list of black haired girls?

PageAction: CultActor
3rd Aug '12 5:26:01 PM

Crown Description:

What would be the best way to fix the page?

Total posts: 67
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