...black comedy pedophilia?
Oh My
Just what it sounds like really. Playing off a pedophile as humorous or a child in love with an adult. Typically in an exaggerated fashion since well this is black comedy. We need dead babies, rape, and cannibalism stat. So "This shit is fucked up and disturbs us...JOKE ABOUT IT NOW".
Trying to think of an example of it from a work, but I'm drawing blanks right now...
Wait.
...would Kimura from Azumanga Daioh count? Welcome to the NHK jabs at it in a humorous fashion while also taking a VERY serious slant to the various problems of the characters. We laugh at the pedophilia and suicide attempts one moment before cringing in horror or bawling the next.
If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
The trope is black comedy. The detail of the awful thing being joked about is not important.
edited 27th Jul '12 5:44:48 PM by FastEddie
Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
Yes. With no examples. Which is what they are.
edited 27th Jul '12 5:45:52 PM by FastEddie
Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
Oh My
That sounds like the best option based on what I know of the words. Let's do that.
If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah
It isn't quite pedophilia played for laughs. It's pedophilia not portrayed as really being that bad. Now, that's obviously still bad, but for a different reason, so that's the issue that really needs to be addressed.
Aondeug: For example, Konata's dad in Lucky Star is viewed as basically harmless despite being pretty creepy at times.
edited 27th Jul '12 5:48:55 PM by Arha
☆♥☆
Really, the words are used to mean all sorts of things, positive, neutral, and negative. I think what Septimus Heap is bringing up is that our page on lolicon currently just focuses on it being pedophilia used for black comedy or similar, which isn't quite correct.
Black Comedy Pedophilia is just Black Comedy so that could just be lumped into that. The creepy thing of not taking pedophilia seriously in a work is Lolicon as currently defined. I don't really care what we do with this page anymore, really. To have an evil pedophile we have the Paedo Hunt thread. So, the question is what do we want to do with the page we have now? Do we not want to have a page on the trope to go with the content violations stuff? Do we rename it to something less ambiguous? Redefine even?
☆♥☆
Well I think that about the best thing to do with it is to make it fan-speak rather than a trope, and have the description basically say that it's a colloquial Japanese word referring to pedophiles and pedophilia towards girl, that it's often used to refer to ecchi and hentai anime/manga/games that pander to pedophiles, and stuff our page has now about how the word is used and such characters treated in a lot of Japanese media like anime and manga. Then maybe also that some people refer to little girls as lolis, but we'd of course prefer you not do that.
The shotacon page should also be similar.
That might work. Explaining the genre would also explain why Japanese media, contrary to Japanese society, doesn't take it seriously. It sounds like an acceptable solution to me since honestly I don't really see much way for this page to stick around otherwise.
Is that actually true? I keep seeing claims that people over here get a distorted view of what is and isn't "acceptable" in Japanese media.
So far as I can tell a lot of anime, manga, games and visual novels treat it pretty lightly. Stuff aimed at younger people. I don't know about any of the other stuff and some of anime etc treats it seriously. Actual Japanese society is not big on pedophilia.
No action required, really.
Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
Follow-up of these
threads
. The current pages lolicon and shotacon have several issues:
- As defined on this wiki, lolicon refers to basically Black Comedy Paedophilia while Shotacon is a fetish towards young boys in fiction – a form of Perverse Sexual Lust. But off wiki they refer also to paedophilia in general, several genres featuring fanservice of young people, and other things (Citation
). For example, in the content policy threads in the TV Tropes Forum it is often used as a term for paedophilia. At least The Other Wiki refers to both as the fetish (like our article shotacon), which isn’t tropeworthy by itself, and the genre which appeals to this fetish (basically Lolicon Genre or Shotacon Genre), which is going to be a content policy nightmare.
- Both of them have Trope Decay issues that started right after the TRS thread
in autumn 2011 and led to a clean-up effort in May-June 2012
. Given the extensive decay and the lack of a narrower pattern than “young” and “romantical”, it’s likely that the misuse stems partly from the ambiguous names and the fact that their definitions in the wild are often wider than the TV Tropes one. This seems to correlate with the fact that 1700 inbounds is relatively low, compared to other Japanese Fan Speak stuff like Kuudere – and it’s the exact opposite in Google hits (far more for lolicon than e.g kuudere)
- As was discussed in the old TRS thread, Black Comedy Paedophilia isn’t an exclusively Japan-specific trope, so having it under a non-indicative Japanese name makes no sense. Not all wicks are from Japanese works either.
- The older thread
decided on several wider-going actions, which were never executed.
Hence, I suggest here to merge the pages as Fan Speak definitions under Lolicon and Shotacon and to split the trope “Paedophilia creepiness Played for Laughs” off to its own page like Black Comedy Paedophilia. Questions here are:- Whether my suggestion is feasible
- Whether the fetish that shotacon is about is actually notable enough to get a page here
- Whether a page about the Lolicon Genre is safe enough to split off the “con” pages, since it’s more notable than just a fetish
- Whether the Fan Speak definitions belong on two different pages (lolicon and shotacon) or one (Lolicon and Shotacon)
- Whether they belong on Useful Notes
- Which name to use for the trope lolicon is being renamed to
- Whether that trope should allow examples (it will have to be locked either way – topic’s far too controversial)
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman