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Misused: Creators Pet

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SWFMax Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#501: Apr 25th 2015 at 8:36:37 AM

I've removed all of the examples you guys said I should remove.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#502: Apr 27th 2015 at 8:48:02 PM

As for Donna Noble, she was originally introduced as a One-shot character where she was... kinda reviled.

But the writers did decide to give her another shot a year or so later and make her a main character. Not sure if that would make her count or not, but they did take an unpopular character and push her because the writers liked her.

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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#503: Apr 27th 2015 at 8:48:48 PM

Doesn't count. The companions by definition are lead characters; they cannot "steal the spotlight" in the manner required for Creator's Pet.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#504: Apr 27th 2015 at 8:50:05 PM

She wasn't a companion, she was a one-shot character that was written out at the end of the episode. I hardly think that constitutes a main character in the grand scheme of things.

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HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#505: Apr 27th 2015 at 8:50:41 PM

And then she came back as a lead.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#506: Apr 27th 2015 at 8:51:50 PM

Donna was the Tenth Doctor's companion for season 4 of the new series. She was Rescued from the Scrappy Heap quite effectively. Also, she was supposed to be seen as shrewish and unlikable at first — she was the only companion in the new series that wasn't adventurous and smart. She is very much The Heart of the various companions; her grounding is exactly what makes her so necessary to curtail Ten, who was falling into some serious megalomania.

The episode "Turn Left" is there explicitly to show us what would have happened to the world had she not showed up and restrained the Doctor.

edited 27th Apr '15 8:59:16 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#507: Apr 27th 2015 at 9:00:08 PM

My point being that the writers took a minor character who was disliked, gave her Character Focus and Character Shilling and it did wind up working.

Doesn't change the fact they were pushing an unliked minor character. It just worked out for them.

I agree, by S4 she's past the point where she could count. But at the beginning of S4? Creator's Pet is kinda the reason she became a companion.

edited 27th Apr '15 9:01:01 PM by Larkmarn

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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#508: Apr 27th 2015 at 9:02:21 PM

Or they planned it. From what I understand, the producers wanted Catherine Tate for season 3 but she turned them down at first, so they recast Freema Agyeman as Martha, and when Tate accepted the role, put her in season 4. She was intended to be a companion all along.

In response to your edit, it doesn't work that way. A character cannot be a Creator's Pet in one episode and a happy fun character in another episode. The trope must encompass the totality of their presence in the work, unless there's a writer switch.

edited 27th Apr '15 9:03:03 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#509: Apr 27th 2015 at 9:06:55 PM

So what was planned? That she'd be disliked and eventually brought back? I don't... super buy that, if I'm being honest.

EDIT: And honestly, I'm not sure how much "planning" changes things. Frankly, writers thinking they can bring an intentionally disliked character to be liked later on sounds close enough to being a Creator's Pet to me. It still has the "it doesn't matter what the fans think, we can change their minds" idea behind it. The supposed extra year between the special and Donna's season is just more time for them to go "eh. We can turn this around" which seems like exactly what CP is about.

edited 27th Apr '15 9:11:53 PM by Larkmarn

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nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#510: Apr 27th 2015 at 10:16:38 PM

A character cannot be a Creator's Pet in one episode and a happy fun character in another episode.

"Happy fun character" is sort of a weird way to put it, but that aside: is that actually the case? I've been wondering for a while about some of our YMMV character "tropes" whether the character qualifying at some point means that they should be listed even if they later stop qualifying.

edited 27th Apr '15 10:41:11 PM by nrjxll

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#511: Apr 27th 2015 at 10:32:50 PM

I do think Creator's Pet should be for unsuccessful cases, at any rate. If giving a character more role raises their popularity, it's not Creator's Pet.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#512: Apr 28th 2015 at 12:41:11 AM

All traits of a Creator's Pet need to happen at the same time, not at various points in the character's life, as with Donna.

Making a character a main character isn't giving them an unreasonable amount of focus. It's giving them a role where they should have more focus.

Also not The Scrappy.

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SWFMax Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#513: Apr 28th 2015 at 4:42:25 AM

Besides, I'm not sure if Donna Noble qualifies as a Creator's Favorite. She might be, I just only started watching Doctor Who after she made her last appearance, so I'm not sure.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#514: May 4th 2015 at 1:31:09 PM

Pretty sure she'd qualify. Davies and Tennant both sang praises of Catherine Tate quite vocally.

Though honestly, I feel like Character Shilling is a pretty good indicator of Creator's Favorite in of itself. After all, if the creator didn't like the character, they wouldn't shill it.

But meh, seems like consensus is against her. I thought it was an interesting point that sometimes it can work, but I am not going to fight it.

... speaking of which, this got pulled from Agents Of Shield:

She definitely gets rescued from the scrappy heap eventually, but there's a length of time before that happens. Interesting, the edit reason ("That's... not really accurate. Coulson got most of the storyline's focus, and while there was quite a bit of Character Shilling going on in Skye's case, she doesn't really qualify as Creator's Pet.") seems to indicate that she doesn't get enough focus to qualify as a Creator's Pet. Honestly, I'd see it the other way around, she might be too major a character to qualify (she's either the deutragooist or tritagonist). Also, I don't think I've heard any of Creator's Favorite other than shilling.

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SWFMax Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#515: May 6th 2015 at 3:49:59 PM

Yeah, that example seems inaccurate. It doesn't mention her being a Creator's Favorite.

Also, here are some more posts I don't think are accurate:

  • YMMV.AA Pessimal: This is on a YMMV page for a creator, and I don't think creators are even supposed to have YMMV pages. It does mention the "main characters" being Creator's Favorites, but main characters automatically don't qualify. Plus, the example says nothing about the characters being The Scrappy, getting Character Focus, or receiving Character Shilling. For reference, here's what it says:
"Arguably, but, he definitely does cherish his female Assassin 'main characters'.
  • Alice Band is probably the strongest contender. She can be summed up as 'Lara Croft Tomb Raider as a lesbian assassin'. She's also an extremely promiscuous lesbian who finds no problem having casual partners, and all of her repeat lovers are fine with their open relationship, though this is justified somewhat by the fact she (and at least three of her four main partners) are in an extremely high-risk profession. She's also the beloved goddaughter of the Ridcully brothers — and thusly the informal niece-by-adoptation of Ankh-Morpork's High Priest and the Archchancellor of the Unseen University, with both of her honorary uncles being quite loving and supportive of her even though her actual parents have essentially disowned her for her sexuality. Fortunately, she's emphatically not an Assassin-Wizard; her family lineage (by way of the Discworld's very loose take on the matter) lets her see octarine, and that's it.

  • YMMV.After Earth: It has no context at all. For reference, it says "If there was any role that where a character played by Jaden Smith turned out to be this, it's Kitai."

  • YMMV.AI Love You: It has very little context, and I don't really understand it. For reference, it says "Cindy. Akamatsu says as much in that volume's interviews, and visually, she's even more of a proto-Naru than Saati is."

edited 6th May '15 3:50:47 PM by SWFMax

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#516: May 6th 2015 at 3:57:24 PM

If the YMMV page of a creator is about the creator's works, then it's fine, I believe. Since we're not supposed to trope real people, creator pages cover tropes common in their works, or for works that don't have their own pages. And that is about characters, not the person.

Other than that, I have no idea whether the character fits the trope and its four points. But I think all of those sound more like Creator's Favorite than Creator's Pet, which is a common misuse.

edited 6th May '15 3:57:53 PM by AnotherDuck

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HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#517: May 18th 2015 at 4:00:28 PM

Had a question about the character Sam Manson from Danny Phantom, the title character's best friend whom he eventually gets together with. She's listed as a Creator's Pet, and what's more a lot of the show's YMMV page is devoted to how much the fandom supposedly hates her, the romance being unbelievable, etc. I've also heard around the 'net that the characters Valerie and Ember (the local Anti Heroines, basically) are preferred as love interests in at least some circles.

Thing is, I ran all three pairings through the all-knowing fanfiction.net character filters (I'm kidding about them being all-knowing of course, but it's still a decent way of getting numbers on what characters/ships are popular), and Sam came out ahead of the other two several times over. Combine that with the fact that nearly every reference to Sam on this Wiki is negative and I'm wondering if we're dealing with one contributor with a Single-Issue Wonk about this character, or something.

Anyone know anything more about fan reaction to her?

edited 18th May '15 4:00:42 PM by HamburgerTime

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#518: May 18th 2015 at 4:02:42 PM

You could check who made wrote the examples in the first place. I'm not familiar with the series, though.

I wonder if she's got unreasonable focus, though. Something that isn't just complaining that she's still there from people who want her gone. Best friend and love interest of the main character means she probably has to have a lot of focus to qualify.

And I just checked: She's also listed as Base Breaker. Pick one.

edited 18th May '15 4:06:37 PM by AnotherDuck

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HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#519: May 18th 2015 at 4:09:28 PM

[up] I do know that she's usually the mouthpiece whenever the writers want to make a point, but I'll definitely check the history to see who added what.

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#520: May 18th 2015 at 4:13:27 PM

That trope would be Creator's Favorite, which is a frequent misuse of Creator's Pet.

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HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#521: May 18th 2015 at 4:24:30 PM

Back. The vast majority of the negative tropes related to the character on the YMMV page were, as I predicted, added by one contributor, Duel Mark, though the actual Creator's Pet entry was added by someone else.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#522: May 18th 2015 at 4:29:43 PM

[up]Sounds like they should go, then.

Ramona122003 Since: Jan, 2001
#523: May 24th 2015 at 6:24:37 AM

I watched Danny Phantom and Sam is no Creator's Pet.

For one, she is one of the three main characters in the show with Trucker. It much like Pokemon where Ash is the main character with two companions who also share the spotlight. And although she can get on a soapbox, most of her statements are Played for Laughs and not to be taking seriously.

She also have no Character Shilling. She is actually consider a loser in-unverise with only her friends taking up for her. She fails the Scrappy being a Base Breaker at worst. Really, the only requirements she fills is Creator's Favorite.

Most of the people who disliked Sam are the Die for Our Ship types and you can clearly see it in the entry.

While we are on the subject, why is Lisa Simpson here?

She is part of the primary cast, which does make her one of the main characters. Like Sam, her heavy-handedness is played for laughs most of time and have proven to be outright wrong at other times. She has no real Character Shilling with most seeing her as a loser and annoying for her preaching. She also no Scrappy, closer to a Base Breaker. Like Same above, the only requirement she fills is Creator's Favorite.

And really, Sally from Sonic Sat AM is not a Creator's Pet either. She is not a Scrappy, she's a Base Breaker. Character Focus is debatable since she was the main love interest and never stood the spotlight from Sonic, just the other characters like Rotor. Bunny also got a lot screen time being Sally's friend.

And Dulcy does not counter either. She has about much screen time as the other secondary characters. Most of screen time was in fact acting as a transport and comic relief. They actually under used her given how powerful she was. She also failed Character Shilling since most acknowledge her power, but called her clumsy and destructive.

In my opinion, all three examples need to be wiped.

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#524: May 24th 2015 at 9:09:41 AM

Lisa Simpson is a main character. Automatic disqualification. Also probably has enough fans to not count for that either, although I've avoided the fandom for quite a while now.

Not familiar with the rest.

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Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#525: May 24th 2015 at 10:15:29 AM

I'm pretty sure Sally is main-charactery enough to be disqualified on that basis.


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