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I don't think that's a Defied Trope. The character needs to have some In-Universe expectation, understanding, or knowledge that a particular trope is about to happen, and then they need to attempt to stop the trope from being played straight.
From what I understand of Death Seeker, what you suggested might be a subversion depending on whether he tries to or really wants to kill himself.
[Edited to revise and add that I misread you at first. It's still not a defied ]
edited 18th Nov '17 9:51:46 PM by WaterBlap
That's true, but being suicidal is the first step towards said particular method.
To the first bullet, I think it needs to be the character the example is saying is doing the defying, but I'm not sure.
For the second bullet, I am sure that it's not exactly a "no." That is, I think they need to know it's a pattern of some kind, or a cliche, or something that the audience expects. I don't think they need to know it's quote-unquote a "trope."
Recognizing as "a pattern of some kind, or a cliche, or something that the audience expects" implies that they know that it's something that happens in fiction, ergo that they know it's a trope even if they don't actually know the term "trope" itself.
That seems to be written as though you disagree with me, but I don't see the point that we disagree on.
Your question had bolded emphasis on the term "trope," so I thought you were asking whether they knew about these things we call "tropes." Plus, not all patterns or expectations are things we have articles for, so it's a little bit more general but not saliently so.
edited 19th Nov '17 5:39:30 AM by WaterBlap
I'm trying to make sure that we're on the same page here by explaining what I'm understanding from that part of your post. The thing is, quite a few of the tropes we have catalogued are Truth in Television, and quite a few of those go further by having already been happening and recognized as real-life phenomena long before they gave rise to the tropes based on them; Death Seeker is among the tropes that fall into the first category, though I don't know whether it does fall into the second one. That's why I asked if the character doing the defying needs to know that Death Seeker is a character type that gets used in some fictional works (i.e. a trope).
edited 19th Nov '17 8:44:50 AM by MarqFJA
Okay, I double checked Invoked Trope and Discussed Trope to contrast them with this (as it says on Defied Trope's page). With Invoked and Discussed, they would need to know that Death Seeker is a "trope" (e.g. "a character type that gets used in some fictional works"). I don't think they need to know that same information in order to Defy it, especially if Defied Trope "may sometimes lead to" Reality Ensues.
That's just my opinion, but I'm basing it off of our articles for Defied Trope, Invoked Trope, and Discussed Trope, as well as (part of) our articles on Reality Ensues and Averted Trope (which this obviously leads to in most cases).
My opinion from before is the same but I can be more precise. Cliches and patterns exist regardless of media, and they can be observed in everyday conversations and journalism respectively. You yourself can know of these things regardless of fiction and — dare I say it — regardless of TV Tropes. Thus, merely knowing these cliches and patterns exist does not necessitate that "you know it is a trope even if you don't actually know the term 'trope' itself." You don't need to, say, know that this pattern is a character type, just that it is some pattern you're familiar with.
Concerning audience expectations, I would say the same for them as "patterns." I'm not talking about Audience Reactions, though I suppose that would be easier to talk about.
I made a sandbox for PlayingWith.Hysterical Woman here, as it has a lot of problems.
Is a Backfired Trope a thing? It's not a page, but is it a valid trope type?
This doesn't seem to fit what Subverted Trope says:
1. I do not think so.
2. I do not think so. At the every least, it should mention Alice getting arrested.
. Network Decay
I fixed them. How did I do?
You did well.
How did I do?
I think You Don't Look Like You might need some altering, as the troper who made the page was under the impression that the trope was about changes to a characters personality and appearance in an adaptation rather than just their appearance being changed.
Yeah, the parts that refer to personality could do with being rewritten.
I was reading One-Winged Angel, and even though the description specifies it's a battle-boss-usually-ending trope, just on the Anime page, there's quite a few "X can turn into a nasty powerful monster" entries. I don't know enough about a lot of the works to clean it up myself. (Plus, well, I'm putting off chemistry homework that I need to get to...)
Card Games needs work too.
Does this count as a deconstruction of Point-and-Laugh Shows?
It isn't. A deconstruction is supposed to be a work that explores the consequences of a trope in more detail than normal. This doesn't fit that description at all.
PlayingWith.Black Blood says that it's just "Blood that is black".
Laconic and Main description seem to imply that it's Censorship-purposes only, though?
The "Inverted" write-up in PlayingWith.Offscreen Teleportation doesn't actually seem like an example of an Inverted Trope. It's really just the trope played straight, but it only reverses who pulls off the trope.
That being said, can this trope actually be inverted?
I'd called it a reasonable inversion, since the general idea is that the villain can somehow be a step ahead of their victim and surprise them.
So the villain getting surprised in that way is a reasonable inversion.
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How well does it match the trope?