Five-Man Band has been receiving a lot of misuse. As was concluded in this TRS thread
, it needs a massive cleanup. There are over 30 subpages and almost 3500 wicks to be gone through. This thread is for organizing the cleanup effort and discussing any and all examples to be added and cut.
What is correct use of the trope?
- The characters must be part of a team, that is, a team dynamic must exist between members of the band.
- There must be exactly 5 team members
Format for examples
In an effort to cut down on misuse as well as get rid of all the Zero Context Examples, we are trying to shift all examples to the following format. If you are familiar with a current work and can do a writeup for it, please do so and post it here.
The sandbox for sorting examples is here.
Completed
Subpages:
- Other (Moved and redirected to a Just for Fun page, as that is what is was acting as.)
Still needs work
Wicks (Related To page):
- B-V
I will keep this post updated with the progress made, and any other needed information.
Edited by MacronNotes on May 19th 2022 at 8:59:40 AM
So, erm, most of the time when FMB gets potholed to a page, it would start with a description of the team, then a series of five sub-bullets (**) listing The Hero, The Lancer, The Big Guy, The Heart...
What about entries that crams everything in a single sentence, which makes it borderline ZCE anyway?
Exhibit A,B,C —
Psycho Busters: The Hero is Joi Touma, The Lancer is Kakeru Hase, The Big Guy is Kaito Himuro, The Smart Guy is Xiao Long Bai, The Chick is Ayano Fujimura, and together work as a team. See those trope for more detail.
Ratman: Parodied with the Skull Ranger Jacky Five, a one-time training exercise where the Jackies modified their usual outfits in sentai style to fight Ratman. Notable for a number of reasons: It's the only time we see more than three Jackies at once, the only time we ever see a muscular or apparently female Jackie, and the Jackies easily defeat Ratman with their teamwork.
Flunk Punk Rumble: Humorously constructed in the student council, with Adachi as The Hero, Shinagawa, Izumi and Rinka as a troika of lancers, and Chiba checking in as The Big Guy, The Smart Guy AND The Chick. Later becomes Shinigawa as The Hero, Izumi as The Lancer, Adachi as The Big Guy, Rinka as The Chick, and Chiba as The Smart Guy.
I'm guessing its somewhere along the lines of "kill on sight"
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
Actually, that's more acceptable now.
For one, we did away with the specific role format, so any five-person team applies. For two, we're trying to do away with the indentation, which was misuse from the start.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Am I the only one who's bothering to clean up the examples across the site? Because, if so, nobody else is posting about it on-thread. Anyway, I deleted the examples I brought up in my last post, since nobody's re-written any of them (I don't blame y'all - I don't know these shows either).
TRS Wick Cleaning
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
I've been focused on other cleanup efforts. If I split my time between those and this, I wouldn't get anything done ever.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Yeah, that's understandable.
On a different note, I found JustForFun.Five Things Band. What should be done with it?
Edited by GoldenCityBird on Dec 2nd 2021 at 6:32:04 PM
TRS Wick Cleaning
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
I'm okay with it. It's JFF, after all.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Well, for assistance on cleanup efforts, there's a place to summon reinforcements in Administrivia.TRS Wick Cleaning
Went ahead and cleared out all the Western Animation definite article-titles. Just wanna share this absolute gem of an "example" from The Harlem Globetrotters that went unnoticed since 2016:
- Five-Man Band: Technically six, since there are six Globetrotters—plus Granny and their pet dog.
Someone wrote that unironically. Really.
Edited by GoldenCityBird on Dec 3rd 2021 at 12:10:06 PM
TRS Wick Cleaning
I've cleaned the Western Animation namespace up to R, leaving behind the potholes and such.
Edited by GoldenCityBird on Dec 4th 2021 at 3:15:34 PM
TRS Wick Cleaning
Random shoehorn of the day — WesternAnimation.Littlest Pet Shop 2012. Does anyone know the difference between a Five-Man Band and an Eight Man Band?
- Five-Man Band: This varies depending on the episode.
- The Leader - Zoe (mostly) / Russell (occasionally) / Pepper (occassionally)
- The Lancer - Vinnie (mostly) / Pepper (occasionally)
- The Smart Guy - Russell
- The Big Guy - Penny Ling
- The Chick - Minka (mostly) / Penny Ling (occasionally) / Sunil (occasionally)
- The Heart - Sunil
- Plucky Comic Relief - Pepper
- Team Mom - Blythe
While cleaning up examples, I came across Kung Fu Panda. I rewrote it as such:
- Five-Man Band: The Furious Five, as of the first portion of the movie where they don't accept Po as one of theirs, form a team of five (as their name states). Tigress is considered by all of them to be a leader-figure who works with the four others - Monkey, Crane, Mantiss, and Viper - and their vastly different fighting styles and skillsets.
Is this good enough?
TRS Wick Cleaning
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
You would think "team with five people in it" would be an easy criteria to understand...
Sounds fine to me
I plan on cleaning up another chunk of Western Animation today, but I have a question regarding Inside Out. It's been a while since I watched it, but I don't really recall the five senses having so much as a story arc all together. Before Joy and Sadness, however, they all work as a unit. I can't say much about the ending since it's mostly escaped my memory, but I don't think they work all together to solve the final conflict. Are they an example or not? Am I forgetting something important?
TRS Wick Cleaning
That's an interesting one. We definitely know they operate as a unit, as that's how the whole system works, but we see very little of that, and the intercharacter relationships are quite limited. Not sure myself, but I can see an argument for it not counting.
It probably counts as a subversion or double-subversion, to be honest; marketing and early parts of the story build it up, only for it to fracture off later on. Still good for the main page.
TRS Wick Cleaning
Found an example from Kid Cosmic:
- Five-Man Band: Discussed in "Kid Cosmic and the Big Win", where the diner patrons point out the classic archetypes. The responsible Jo is The Leader, the pacifistic Papa G is The Heart, the ready-to-brawl Rosa is the muscle, and the psychic Tuna Sandwich is the brains. Everyone else is confused about where Kid traditionally fits in, to which Carl replies Kid is the comic relief. The gang doesn't quite fully fit into the "traditional" Five-Man Band archetypes.
While this does seem to imply that the "Five-Man Band Classic" might be a regular trope, this doesn't really seem like a "discussion" of the current FMB trope and rather a straight play. Any ideas on how to rewrite?
TRS Wick Cleaning
I don't know the work, but I'm generally of the mindset that a Discussed trope normally is played straight — it's just that the work itself is discussing how, which is how it's being "played with".
I was actually reading the Laconic as well as the trope description before responding, and I think the Laconic is terrible. Is it a survivor of the Classic, or was it updated along with the trope description? I think it's actually missing a big opportunity to emphasise the fact that FMB is about exploring the bonds that make characters FMB instead of just The Team. The trope description's final statement ("In sum, while any collection of five people can make a group, it's the bonds between them and the way they are explored that elevates them to a band.") is basically the Laconic right there, for example:
"A group of exactly five people, where the bonds between them and the way they are explored elevates them from an ordinary team into a five-man band."
Just a thought, anyway.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Dec 9th 2021 at 11:16:15 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to making that the new laconic.
While certainly an example for the current version, it still wouldn't fit the rigid structure of the old one. Two female members, male heart instead of chick, and a nebulous comic relief instead of a lancer. An interesting case study.
I'll put it onto the Laconic clean-up thread and see if they have any thoughts as well.
Should the "Please note that villains can also form Five-Man Bands. It is not a hero-exclusive trope." be on the Laconic page, or on the trope description page?
Edited by Wyldchyld on Dec 10th 2021 at 5:24:56 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
It looks like someone has just changed the Laconic.Five Man Band, although using different wording to the one I've suggested. They've also removed the second line about villains counting, too.
Shall I change the Laconic based on the wording above, or leave it as the wording that it's just been changed to?
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
I suppose the current wording's good enough.
What should we do with PlayingWith.Five Man Band, which exclusively plays with the old definition?
TRS Wick Cleaning
Dealt with the main Animation namespace. Bringing up this massive example from Angel.Tropes F To J:
- Five-Man Band: Lampshaded by Fred in "Fredless", right down to naming Wesley as "the brain", Gun as "the muscle", and Cordy as "the heart". Later deconstructed by an incresingly-embittered Gunn ("Guise Will Be Guise"), who resents being the dumb muscle of the group. While the Fang Gang's roster does shift and they move in roles, they form a pretty consistent band:
- Angel is The Leader. As Gunn points out, it's his name on the cards. Even after the return of Darla when Angel fired his friends to embrace his darker nature and tackle her alone, feeling bad about pushing them away, and the offering to actually work for them rather than employing them again, putting Wes in the leadership role on paper it's still Angel calling the shots. This role also temporarily goes to guest star Faith during season 4 when Angel loses his soul for a few episodes and Angelus returns. It doesn't last that long though.
- Wesley is The Lancer. Despite being referred to as The Smart Guy by Fred and Gunn, he really exists as a foil to Angel and to be his second-in-command, even developing into being fully capable of taking up the leadership mantle in Angel's absence. As such, he even winds up coming into conflict with Angel on multiple occasions, butting heads as Lancers do. Arguably, some may put Cordelia in this role, but confidence, bravery and feisty personality traits don't necessarily determine a lancer (and she's too similar to Angel to be a foil).
- Fred is The Smart Guy. Wesley has some smart guy tendencies, and during seasons 1 and 2 he was the candidate for this role given his bottomless pit of knowledge regarding demons and artefacts, but once Fred joins in season 3 and finally gets settled into the gang after proving herself with her inventions, she takes this spot and makes it her own. It could be said Fred's place in the team is solely to help with the science-y stuff, where as Wes still maintains a monopoly on the mystic knowledge side.
- Gunn is The Big Guy. A good example of the member of Team Angel whose position in the group is up to the least debate (minus Angel himself). He even resents that he's basically a blunt instrument to do the smashing and its brought up many times. He tries to move away from it in season 5, but it doesn't last.
- Cordelia is The Chick. It's mentioned many times that she's what's holding the gang together (being explicitly referred to as The Heart), and that she's their moral compass. To the point that after she's gone, the gang finds themselves all over the place during some of the worst predicaments they've ever faced. It's underlined in "You're Welcome", where Cordy comes back and is shocked at how far the group has fallen into complacency at Wolfram & Hart, with Angel even admitting to Cordelia's face that he's been lost without her guidance.
It claims to be a lampshade, but it doesn't really seem to do much lamoshading of the old FMB trope. And it's an indentation nightmare, with lengthy sub-bullets. Anyone wanna tackle this?
Another example from Anime.Gaiking Legend Of Daiku Maryu:
- Five-Man Band: A villainous version comprising of Emperor Darius and his four generals, the latter of whom each correspond to a cardinal point. This arrangement changes as Suspage attempts to kill Proist and dies trying, Vestaanu and Nouza both pull a Heel–Face Turn, and Proist gradually becomes the Big Bad after The Reveal.
- Big Bad: At first, the 17th Emperor of Darius who spends most of the series focusing on other matters, so his generals take center stage. Later on, Proist ascends to being The Dragon, and finally becomes the Big Bad near the end after the 17th Emperor of Darius reveals his intentions.
- The Dragon: Proist - General of the East, the member with the Emperor's interests most often on mind, and the one who usually tries to get things done just for the sake of Darius. Although, after The Reveal, she turns out to be just as self-serving as any of them, particularly as she gradually supplants her father as the Big Bad.
- The Evil Genius: Suspage - General of the South, an accomplished biologist and military commander.
- The Brute: Nouza - General of the North, a Blood Knight who bosses Sissy Villain Suspage around a lot, casually making death threats and waving his BFS around a lot.
- The Dark Chick: Vestaanu - General of the West, a cold, calculating Iron Lady who is more often than not watching her colleagues muck up whatever's going on, sending out her Iron Beasts only when she knows that she'll be at an advantage. She's also the first one to begin to Heel–Face Turn.
Again, there's too much text here, but, beyond the sub-bullets, there might be some actual context that can be gleamed from this. Anyone familiar enough with this to rewrite? I'd message the page's editors, but it's mostly just TRS stuff.
Edited by GoldenCityBird on Dec 16th 2021 at 5:14:34 PM
TRS Wick Cleaning
I've gone ahead and cut the Inside Out example, since I don't feel confident in rewriting it.
TRS Wick Cleaning
i'd find a way to merge Sandbox FMB and FMB Redux.
then maybe intermittently we holler for mods to update the mainpage to match the combined sandbox whenever there's been enough cutting/adding of examples?
Edited by acrobox on Dec 1st 2021 at 9:16:49 AM