Five-Man Band cleanup

I feel like there's gotta be at least a couple of examples on the music page that acutally fit, but i'd agree that most of it is probably shoe horning. I'd call it a success if we salvaged 3-5 examples off that page.

Yeah i'm trying to be strict about FMB+extra members. I've been doing it as FMB with maybe Sixth Ranger in the overall description but not sure if that's the best way to do it. Anything that's more than that though becomes The Team for sure.

Also definitly trying to be strict about Four out of Five the the FMB and a 5th person that doesn't fit a role. That can also be The Team. The only one i'm on the fence for there is the Avatar TLA example that most people agree is a pretty clear band, but The Smart Guy (Sokka) acts as field leader as often as The Hero (Aang) does. I'd personally like to add it, but will defer to the group.

Edited by acrobox on Jan 18th 2019 at 7:10:07 AM

I Personally think the ATLA example fits. Sokka might occasionally get into a leader role but Aang is still the hero and leader of the group and Sokka is the smartest.

How should we treat The Sixth Ranger? Are they acceptable?

Edit: Okay, I see on the sandbox that The Sixth Ranger is mentioned in description but not in the actual list. A'ight.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 18th 2019 at 10:27:22 AM

currently on M for Man of the House in the film section.

I also think Avatar is an example.

Cutlisted the music subpage, but if you can think of any music examples feel free to discuss or add to the sandbox. Question: are the context requirements different for a music example? Is the following enough context, or do music examples need the same relationship dynamics as for other media?

• The Leader: Alex is Lead Guitarist
• The Lancer: Bob, the backup guitarist
• The Smart Guy: Charlie, the lyricist/songwriter
• The Big Guy: David, the drummer
• The Chick: Ella, the bassist/keyboardist/backup vocalist and only girl

Maybe some attention to their personalities or other attributes would help, because while they might technically fit the generic mold, what if, say, Charlie is actually the biggest and strongest one of the bunch despite being the songwriter? Would he still be the Smart Guy by virtue of his band position?

BUT...On second thought, though, real people and groups are always going to be more complex than fiction. I need to stop thinking about archetypes as a real band would always have a bit of nuance. Yeah, now that I think about it, I think the band positions (as long as they aren't too shoehorned) would be sufficient context— or we just need to scrap them all together by virtue of them being real people and, again, not archetypes.

Music is complicated.

I think the only valid music examples would be virtual musicians.

Currently on R for Return To Oz in the Film section. Getting through it.

Doin' good acrobox!

Do Villain Protagonists count? What if they're all villains? It's relevant to Five Bad Band cleanup.

Yesterday a troper changed the now defunct entry for the Five's Five Bad Band in the Baldur's Gate Foes Character Page to Five-Man Band without changing anything else.

• Five-Man Band: Well, obviously.
  • The Big Bad: Balthazar. Fought last, most powerful, only revealed after other four are dead.
  • The Dragon: Abazigal (who is also an actual dragon).
  • The Brute: Yaga-Shura. Has the most active army, is encountered on the move, is clearly more muscle than brains.
  • The Evil Genius: Sendai fits best, given her status as Puzzle Boss and Sequential Boss who throws all her minions at you first. She's really one of the dumber ones of the five in terms of planning, however.
  • The Dark Chick: Illasera. Fought first, dies first. Hasn't got an army or much of a plan.

I am guessing this isn't correct and that the entire entry should be deleted?

You guess right.

Right.

I personally would say villains don't count since they're meant to be a heroic team or at least the protagonists, but maybe a team of Villain Protagonist would count as an exception.

Thanks I will remove the entry. They have Big Bad Ensemble on their trope list anyway

alright, film section is done.

Anything on the original page that's not in the sandbox I felt was either a shoehorn or didn't have enough context. But a good amount of examples made it.

Feel free to crosscheck to see if it feels like a good amount of context given for the examples that did make it.

Edited by acrobox on Jan 20th 2019 at 12:29:46 PM

I think you did just fine.

I've just been going through subpages looking for examples that don't have blatantly shoehorned roles and seeing if I can get the necessary context needed to flesh them out. Examples I've not used (which there are a lot of) are either examples that I couldn't find context for or ended up feeling that specific roles were being shoehorned, though maybe someone else would have better luck.

Bumping for a question.

I'm looking into the "Freaky Monkey Five" from Ape Escape. They fit the roles to a T... but they're antagonists. We just discussed villains not really counting for this but with the lack of an actual consensus on the subject I'm not sure if they fit or not.

my feeling is that antagonists can count if they fit the FMB archetypes. Just not the FBB archetypes which we disbanded.

looking at that example Red is clearly a Leader and Blue is a Lancer. But Red isn't necessarily a Big Bad and Blue isn't necessarily a Dragon. (Re: Bauldurs Gate)

Edited by acrobox on Jan 20th 2019 at 1:44:18 AM

Makes sense to me. I'll hold off on it to see what others say first, though.

Can't you just put the Freaky Monkey Five under The Team?

I mean, probably, but they do hit all the correct beats for the Five-Man Band except for the side of the conflict they're on.

i'll start doin a pass on western animation

did a pass on western animation to see what else i could salvage. feel free to cross check the sandbox for anything that feels out of place.

what section should we tackle next? anime and video games seem to be the two biggest undertakings, which hopefully should mean most of them are shoehorns.

Edited by acrobox on Jan 29th 2019 at 8:21:45 AM

If we're done with Film and Western Animation those subpages should be cut.

A lot of the Film entries in the sandbox currently lack context about how the characters work together as a team. Legend Of The Guardians The Owls Of Ga Hoole doesn't have enough context, period.

I'd also like to challenge the The Princess And The Frog entry on the grounds that Charlotte doesn't spend a lot of time together with the whole group, and despite being very girl lacks common The Chick attributes like being The Heart or a love interest.

I already started going through Anime and Video Games and I found some legit examples, but I fully support going through with another set of eyes to be certain we have all the examples we can.

Honestly I went through most subpages already just to try and find at least one legit example.

As for the Ga'Hoole example, let me take a crack at it- I was obsessed with those owls as a kid, I think I can add the context.