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Five-Man Band cleanup

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Five-Man Band has been receiving a lot of misuse. As was concluded in this TRS thread, it needs a massive cleanup. There are over 30 subpages and almost 3500 wicks to be gone through. This thread is for organizing the cleanup effort and discussing any and all examples to be added and cut.

What is correct use of the trope?

  • The characters must be part of a team, that is, a team dynamic must exist between members of the band.
  • There must be exactly 5 team members

Format for examples

In an effort to cut down on misuse as well as get rid of all the Zero Context Examples, we are trying to shift all examples to the following format. If you are familiar with a current work and can do a writeup for it, please do so and post it here.

The sandbox for sorting examples is here.


Completed

Subpages:

  • Other (Moved and redirected to a Just for Fun page, as that is what is was acting as.)

Still needs work

Wicks (Related To page):

  • B-V

I will keep this post updated with the progress made, and any other needed information.

Edited by MacronNotes on May 19th 2022 at 8:59:40 AM

ObjectivelyBiased Since: Aug, 2014
#726: Aug 6th 2014 at 9:02:08 AM

Guardians of the Galaxy:

- The Leader - Peter Quill/Star-Lord

- The Lancer - Gamora

- The Smart Guy - Rocket

- The Big Guy - Drax

- The Chick - Groot

(While you can argue that Groot is The Big Guy, he definitely feels like the heart of the team and their moral center. Quill also has elements of The Chick, but works best as the leader. Gamora is the counterpoint to Quill making her the perfect lancer. Rocket is arguably the team's best strategist and the brains of the operation. Drax is the muscle.)

edited 6th Aug '14 9:03:05 AM by ObjectivelyBiased

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#727: Aug 6th 2014 at 9:09:39 AM

The Wikipedia page doesn't give much detail, but what there is makes me sceptical. The character page too, so I'll support removal there.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#728: Aug 6th 2014 at 9:47:22 AM

Is Groot female? If not, then he can't be The Chick.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#729: Aug 6th 2014 at 9:49:31 AM

It's a sentient tree. Can't find information on the specific gender of this version but both actors and the same characters in other works are male.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
#730: Aug 6th 2014 at 7:53:20 PM

Groot is referred to by male pronouns in the movie. There seems to be a bit of an edit war over this on Guardians of the Galaxy and Guardians Of The Galaxy The Movie.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#731: Aug 6th 2014 at 8:17:14 PM

The Guardians of the Galaxy are unambiguously not a Five-Man Band. They're a team of five, but they don't map precisely onto the very specific structure of FMB.

edited 6th Aug '14 8:17:52 PM by nrjxll

acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#732: Aug 6th 2014 at 9:44:13 PM

I put them under The Team which was invented particularly to handle these kinds of disputes. They are not a FMB.

acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#733: Aug 6th 2014 at 9:46:12 PM

Also hey instead of deleting bad examples just move them under The Team and then encourage people to elaborate on the roles.

rexpensive Since: Feb, 2014
#734: Aug 7th 2014 at 8:27:34 AM

I am not keen on moving a bunch of ZCE to The Team, if you cannot get someone to elaborate on the role first then they ought to just be deleted.

As it stands every single thing under live action tv on The Team is ZCE.

edited 7th Aug '14 8:28:35 AM by rexpensive

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#735: Aug 7th 2014 at 11:50:27 AM

So I've proposed a rewrite for Angel's Five-Man Band on the discussion page... the current is just way too cluttered and full of "buts," "thens," and "untils." The show actually has one of the best examples of FMB, they just don't have it for the entire run. Anyway, let me know what you think.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
rexpensive Since: Feb, 2014
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#737: Aug 7th 2014 at 1:05:44 PM

Looks good. Except, as I noted in the discussion, take out the entry for Sixth Ranger. A Five-Man Band has five and only five members. When the Sixth Ranger joins the team, the Five-Man Band is gone — that's even stated in the definition of Sixth Ranger: "Any new character that joins an established ensemble and knocks it out of one of the traditional categories (and possibly into another) is a Sixth Ranger. "

edited 7th Aug '14 1:07:24 PM by Madrugada

rexpensive Since: Feb, 2014
#738: Aug 7th 2014 at 1:10:38 PM

True, although I personally I like having them included because it is just such a classic set-up.

edited 7th Aug '14 1:11:12 PM by rexpensive

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#739: Aug 7th 2014 at 1:12:26 PM

But it's not. When the Sixth person is doesn't change the previous dynamic, it's not a Sixth Ranger, it's One Extra Member. One Extra Member is what a lot of the Sixth Rangers listed on the various Five-Man Band pages should be.

edited 7th Aug '14 1:13:50 PM by Madrugada

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#740: Aug 7th 2014 at 1:15:41 PM

Sixth Ranger is not a character type too; it's more of a plot trope, and putting it together with Five-Man Band characters will foster that misconception.

One Extra Member, by the way, is "A team named after the number of its members n has actually more than n members". It's a naming trope.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#741: Aug 7th 2014 at 1:39:52 PM

Yep. But One Extra Member says it also applies when the presence of the N+1 member doesn't change the "N Member Team" dynamic even if the team doesn't use a numbered name.

At least that's the way I'm reading it: If you have a Five-Man Band, and then they acquire a Voice with an Internet Connection, but that character doesn't change the basic Five-Man Band Dynamic (they don't start splitting duties with The Smart Guy, for instance) it's a Five-Man Band plus One Extra Member.

edited 7th Aug '14 1:44:08 PM by Madrugada

Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#742: Aug 12th 2014 at 2:04:31 PM

I deleted this from The Lost Boys. Both line-ups miss one of the archetypes, and try to balance it out by shoving in non-related tropes.

edited 12th Aug '14 2:06:45 PM by Morgenthaler

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#743: Aug 13th 2014 at 1:42:21 AM

Yeah, no question about that.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#744: Aug 13th 2014 at 3:38:47 AM

You know, the FiveManBand.Anime subpages have come up in the hyphen migration, and I wonder whether after the cleanup the example list will be short enough to fit on one page. Let's look at the examples:

  • Air Gear: I am somewhat dubious about the way the The Chick example on the work's page is written; it reads like shoehorning. If we keep that, the work page example is a good replacement for the current subpage entry.
  • Axis Powers Hetalia: The work page describes China (The Chick) as "is sometimes confused by fans for being a woman".
  • Baka To Test To Shoukanjuu: Aside from being under the wrong name, The Chick is actually male but mistaken In-Universe for female.
  • Bakugan: I can't find Preyas and Skyress on the character page.
  • Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo: Too many big guys, plus the work page example explicitly says that the team grows.
  • Cage of Eden: I am concerned that Kazuma is described as "Not anywhere near as good a fighter as Yarai or even Akira" on the character page. Plus, the character page has a "team Akira" listed and it doesn't match the Five-Man Band listing.
  • Chihayafuru: Better example, although the character page isn't arranged like that.
  • Combattler V: The work page explicitly says "two of them are smart guys".
  • Corrector Yui: The name of The Big Guy is misspelled; also, there is nothing I can see justifying several of the characterizations.
  • D.Gray-Man: Needs to be crossreferenced; also, there are too many items on the examples article. Miranda Lotto is described as The Sixth Ranger on the character page, while as The Chick in the example. For the second example, someone needs to justify The Chick to me.
  • Dancougar: The Chick is male; also, it's a four team as described on the work page.
  • Dennou Coil: The entry needs the various sidetropes removed; worse, The Chick is again male.
  • Tantei Gakuen Q: The listing of The Mentor needs to go. The rest of the example seems to work.
  • Detective Conan: An entry with context, finally. Sure that it's a team, though?
  • Digimon Adventure 02: Already cleaned earlier in this topic.
  • Drifting Classroom: Too little context on the work page.
  • Duel Masters: Seems fine.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
rexpensive Since: Feb, 2014
#745: Aug 13th 2014 at 8:10:33 AM

I believe the Conan example is fine. That group does act as a team in the episodes they appear in. The others all seem to be incorrect and I would support deleting them.

A-D is really hard to judge without any context but the following have some obvious issues with role sharing

Fang Of The Sun Dougram
Fairy Tail
Flame Of Recca
I think listing that Haruhi Suzumiya envisions her group as fitting these roles is fine, it is explained well and even if it is being referenced instead of being explicitly used It believe it is a valid example. The section on the roles the fill in reality is shoehorning, however.

Most or all the characters listed in Gunslinger Girl are female so it can be cut.

edited 13th Aug '14 8:20:08 AM by rexpensive

TheOneWhoTropes Dread Sorcerer of Auchtermuchty from Newton-le-willows, quaint town Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Dread Sorcerer of Auchtermuchty
#746: Aug 15th 2014 at 10:48:37 AM

Some of the Five Bad Band pages will also need work, if they are under the same strict regulations as Five-Man Band, but that's for when the Five-Man Band clean-up is finished/nearly finished.

Keeper of The Celestial Flame
rexpensive Since: Feb, 2014
#747: Aug 15th 2014 at 10:58:29 AM

In AnimeI-M I propose we cut:

edited 15th Aug '14 10:59:05 AM by rexpensive

rexpensive Since: Feb, 2014
#748: Aug 15th 2014 at 11:41:49 AM

I took the liberty of starting a sandbox for the only examples that have context and are not blatantly wrong. I am slowly going through the anime and manga wicks to find more (and clean the misuse):

Five Man Band Anime

Gideoncrawle Elder statesman from Put out to pasture Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Elder statesman
#749: Aug 15th 2014 at 1:48:13 PM

The FiveManBand.Western Animation N-Z page has the following suspect Total Drama examples, which people are explicitly using as justification for adding even more suspect examples to the work page. Also, the required team dynamic is unlikely to exist, seeing as the show is about an elimination game:

Total Drama Action: Before they were voted off

Screaming Gaffers

The LeaderDuncan
The LancerHeather
The Smart GuyHarold
The Big GuysDJ and Leshawna
The ChickGwen

Too many members (6); too many females (3); two Big Guys; Gwen as The Chick is dubious at best; Duncan is not the acknowledged leader; zero context.

Killer Grips

The LeaderTrent
The LancerJustin
The Smart GuyBeth
The Big GuysOwen and Izzy
The ChickLindsay
Sixth RangerCourtney

Too many members (7); too many females (4); duplicate Big Guy; misuse of The Big Guy re: Izzy (a slim girl of average size who does not rely primarily on physical strength); The Sixth Ranger is not a Five-Man Band type; zero context.

Total Drama World Tour: Before they were voted off

Team Amazon

The LeaderHeather
The LancerSierra
The Smart GuyCody (also has a bit of The Chick as well)
The Big GuyCourtney (the strongest contestant)
The Chick/The (minor) LancerGwen; Izzy too before she swapped with Sierra

(disclaimer: the Note accompanying this example isn't mine; it's on the page.) Too many females (4); shared roles re: The Lancer and The Chick; multiple roles (Cody); misuse of Courtney as The Big Guy (she's neither bigger nor noticeably stronger than the others, and doesn't rely mainly on physical strenth); misuse of The Chick re: Cody; Heather is not the acknowledged leader; zero context.

Team Victory

The Leader/The Big GuyDJ
The Lancer/The HeartLindsay
The Smart GuyHarold
The Big GuyLeshawna
The ChickBridgette
Sixth RangerEzekiel

Amazingly, three of the five types actually fit. However... Too many females (3); D.J. is not the acknowledged leader; misuse of The Lancer (Lindsay is not a foil to D.J. or anyone else); duplicate Big Guy; The Heart is not a Five-Man Band type; Sixth Ranger is irrelevant (Ezekiel's elimination reduced the team to five); zero context. This cannon fodder team had five members for only one episode, and did not display the required team dynamic during that time.

edited 15th Aug '14 1:56:40 PM by Gideoncrawle

Bigotry in the name of inclusion is still bigotry.
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#750: Aug 15th 2014 at 2:39:16 PM

Kill em all. As you say, it's an elimination game, so even if one "tribe" does have something resembling a FMB dynamic at some point, it will only be temporary. Also, way too much shoehorning going on.


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