Directory for Information on the Status of Certain Sexual Subjects

Some may find this redundant, but please allow me to make my (personally embarrassing) case: after running headfirst into the "We do not want a page on this topic. It does not meet our content policy." wall, I spent the next 3+ hours reading thread after thread, trying to piece together what had happened and what was going on. I first started this post here with the intention of formulating a full summation of the present state of things, and an hour in to writing said summary, I stumbled across the actual synopsis that had already been made and posted. Now, I'll acknowledge that I only very rarely go onto the forums; I've been a member on this site for a year or two now and have stuck primarily to editing articles. However, I think that the amount of time and confusion involved in finding the information I was searching for is indicative of a problem, though presumably not necessarily for veteran forum-goers; but I do think that as there is now a significant number of blacked-out tropes and missing pages that a number of other inexperienced members will also be searching for this information, so I'd like to propose a directory of sorts, a list of links to all relevant material that could offer some illumination on the subject. I would appreciate help with regards to any sources or material that I miss in this endeavor. Thank you.

A full review of the present goings-on and the reasons for them written by moderator Bobby G can be found here. This is recommended reading material for anyone with nonspecific confusion or questions.

An Administrivia page providing a much more concise summary of the above explanation can be found in this article: The Second Google Incident

If you wish to learn about the 5P (or P5) panel that has been formed to deal with these issues, they have an Administrivia page: Five P

Previously, this issue had been raised after criticism of suspicious-sounding content of a certain article was made by the "This Troper" video series on Youtube, which deeply bothered forum administrator Fast Eddie; this resulted in a prior campaign to purge the Wiki of perversity, which was deemed insufficient after Google voiced its complaints. The original thread by Fast Eddie can be found here, and the original effort that it provoked can be found here. After Google voiced its complaints, Fast Eddie made a full policy change with the intention of removing pornography as a subject material, announced here.

As part of the new effort, Arha made a thread for the renaming of the Rape Tropes, on which Fast Eddie made another announcement, seeming to declare that rape as a subject is no longer considered acceptable, later giving the reasoning that this was a practical measure to address to the issues that it causes. The thread can be found here, Fast Eddie's announcement here, and the later explanation is here.

A user by the handle name "Fringe Benefits" made a thread early-on regarding the events, which ended up becoming one of the more significant discussions and sources for clarification, and can be found here.

Additions: The newly-made Content Violation Discussions subforum for the discussion of all content now called into question by the new policy is here; the main area for discussion within that forum is the Content Policy Discussion thread, which is here. Work pages which have been flagged for possibly violating the content policy are discussed in the "The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)" thread, which is here.

A general summation of the policy regarding perversion versus prudishness on the Wiki can be read over at No Lewdness No Prudishness.

For the discussion of specific works:

There is a thread for the suggestion of works to be examined by the above-mentioned P5. If you would like to contribute to it, see here.

The status of undecided works can be found here, decided works here and here.

If one is searching for the thread of specific work (if one exists), the forum search is a good place to look. If there is no such thread, you may look here for post-links or use the Google Search (type the URL of the threads you want to search - the pinned ones in the Content Violations Discussions forum - the names of the work - preferably in ""s - into the search bar).

Other Relevant Pages: Page Restoration Petitions, Pages Cut Under The Policy Change, What Is Porn, The Content Policy and the 5P Circuit

This is as much as I could find/thought to put here/was suggested by others. If anyone else has anything to add, please suggest so.

Please note that this thread is not meant to be for discussion/criticism of, nor commentary on, the material listed; questions are fine, but this thread exists for the purposes of helping people find information in these eventful times. Also, I apologize in advance if I'm unknowingly creating any trouble or conflicting any policy.

edited 15th Sep '12 7:04:45 PM by Willbyr

I don't have a link handy right now, but the "rape tropes" thing is still up in the air - there was another post where Eddie stated that no absolute decision has been taken yet, and we are awaiting feedback from our advertisers (read: Google) about what must actually be done. The whole debate on this topic has been put on hold until we receive feedback (this was discussed a few times over in content violations).

edited 18th Jun '12 1:40:33 AM by jkbeta

There's also the Content Violations Discussions subforum, which is where all current action and discussion regarding the policy is occurring. The most important policy-related thread in there is About Content Violation Discussions.

Thank you, Nocturna, I've added both of those to the OP.

@jkbeta: Hrm… I take it that would be somewhere earlier on in the ACVD thread?

IIRC, it was in AVCD somewhere (good luck finding it, that thread is loong).

Three things:

• I can't see No Lewdness No Prudishness mentioned anywhere.
• Using Pot Holes rather than URL links makes the post more readable.
• This should probably be pinned.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

It would be nice if it was possible to keep up with changes to the content violations policy without having to read an extremely verbose thread full of detailed discussions of pedophilia.

How to find discussion about a work:

• The guidelines are here, here and here.
• The status of undecided works is shown here, the one of decided ones here and here.
• If the work has a thread, this forum and the forum search are the places to find detailed discussion.
• If it doesn't, check in this thread for post-links and the Google search if there aren't. How to use the Google search
  Type the URL of the threads you want to search - the pinned ones in the Content Violations Discussions forum - the names of the work - preferably in ""s - into the search bar

edited 19th Jun '12 3:34:33 PM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Seconded.

Sorry about all the blather :(

Several more addenda:

Threads and wiki pages for the policy

• Threads (Caution: Many of these feature heavy arguments and fighting. Please do not carry them over to the current threads):[1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15], [16], [17], [18], [19], [20], [21] and [22]
• Wiki pages: No Lewdness, No Prudishness, Five P The Second Google Incident, Sex Tropes And Related, Questionable Works, Page Restoration Petitions, Pages Cut Under The Policy Change, Pages Pending For Perusal By P 5 and What Is Porn.

edited 20th Jun '12 5:11:20 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Updated the OP with more of the contributions. Is there any way to use Wiki Words for forum threads?

edited 22nd Jun '12 11:59:18 AM by Wii

Unfortunately, no.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Rape Tropes are back, for a cleanup project: Crossposting from here

---

In the mean time, though, I'd be great if everyone could focus on the pages we know for sure that we're keeping. Rewrite anything that sounds too gushy, is rape apologia, or reads like it was typed with one hand. Whenever a page looks clean, please make a bolded statement to that effect so that we know to lock the page.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Fast Eddie, if you're reading this, I want to whole-heartedly thank you for restoring the rape tropes. Horrible as the subject is, it's a valid element of fiction.

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird

Two edit requests for the OP:

• About Content Violations Discussions has been renamed to The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations) and limited to flag evaluations.
• A new policy thread is up here.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Added the links in and tweaked the wording; how's it look?

Seems good.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

The Content Policy and the 5P Circuit needs mentioning in the OP.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Done; I also cut the dead sandbox links and added the Administrivia namespace to a couple of links.

> For the discussion of specific works:

That's a misnomer. If you disagree with anything, your post may well change to something along the lines of "I know better you don't really dare think something more than one step away from me, u troll" from a nameless moderator (since there's no one in particular, we can only assume it's an accepted united position). So, the forum in question is not meant for discussion, only for applauding and agreeing. Which is (surprise) not the same.

...And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense - R.W.Wood

T Beholder: All thumps are accompanied by a pm from the moderator who thumped the post. Therefore, "Nameless moderator" is a misrepresentation of what occurs.

In addition,

is not the same as .

It's a big internet and there are lots of places that welcome other kinds of discussions. You may be happier there.

And yet, it still doesn't make "any substantial disagreement with me gets removed" equal a "discussion". So my clarification is needed.

> is not the same as

Yes, it is. Does it contain a statement of knowing the "real position and motivation" of the poster? Yes, it very much does. So what exactly is your objection to my representation - other than "I don't like this, so I will just say it doesn't exist!", of course?

> It's a big internet and there are lots of places that welcome other kinds of discussions. You may be happier there.

Oh, my, "GTFO" under real, not fake, saccharine? Truly, you are the cutest of the ponies...

So, the above is SOP? TVT is done and over at last? Gone after Deviant Art into wikipaedian sandbox of disney furrytoopia? Not unexpected. In this case, indeed, something not yet smelling of bovine excrements may be more interesting. Thanks for the sample, though.

...And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense - R.W.Wood

T Beholder: Since you are incapable of leaving under your own power, let me assist you.

ETA: T Beholder will no longer be contributing to this or any other discussion. Please note that T Beholder had been under a final warning for disruptive behavior. [1]

edited 25th Nov '12 5:48:08 AM by blackcat

I think that by now, people know about The Content Policy and the 5P Circuit and where the discussions on this subject go, so I might as well unpin and close this.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman