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JAF1970 Jonah Falcon from New York Since: Jan, 2001
Jonah Falcon
#1: Jun 13th 2012 at 9:35:38 AM

Okay, now this just made me LOL.

Did he actually do THIS to Captain America?

Love the extrapolated nude version.

Jonah Falcon
Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#2: Jun 13th 2012 at 9:50:46 AM

90s comics how I hated you(even most of the ones I liked had sorry art) The nude version's chest is off in relation to the placement of the star, it's supposed to be in the middle so both of his nipples should be in view

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
JAF1970 Jonah Falcon from New York Since: Jan, 2001
Jonah Falcon
#3: Jun 13th 2012 at 6:39:41 PM

I rolled my eyes at how "cool" people thought those 90's comics were.

That was also the height of the Collector's Edition comics. Too much fucking speculation.

Jonah Falcon
Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Brony
#4: Jun 13th 2012 at 7:17:03 PM

Liefeld has even admitted that that Captain America pin-up he did was awful. Actually, he's admitted to not being a great artist in general, and has compared himself to Britney Spears, as someone who achieved massive success early on and then became a pariah afterwards. He called Britney vapid pop music, and said that he may have been a vapid comic book artist.

Peter David once called Liefeld the Ed Wood of comics. Which is awesome.

On the other hand, Mark Millar is apparently a fan of Liefeld. So different strokes, I guess.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#5: Jun 13th 2012 at 7:18:14 PM

From what I learn, Rob Liefeld, while a shitty artist and writer, is a pretty nice guy in real life.

Daremo Misanthrope Supreme from Parts Unknown Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
#6: Jun 13th 2012 at 7:30:44 PM

Hating on Liefeld is so last decade.

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.
Gray64 Since: Dec, 1969
#7: Jun 13th 2012 at 9:33:07 PM

Liefeld was enthusiastic, extremely persistent, and a very hard worker. Never much cared for his work, myself. though. It read, and looked, like the sort of comics you'd get if you gave a 14 year old who'd never seen anything but Michael Bay movies license to do anything he wanted.

DrFurball Since: Jan, 2001
#8: Jun 13th 2012 at 9:33:11 PM

While, I find his style awful to look at (I do admire him being so self-depreciating about it, though), I gotta admit he did inspire some very good artists, seemed to be a hard worker who loved what he did, and he helped create some very good characters. And it's so much fun to riff on.

edited 13th Jun '12 9:33:51 PM by DrFurball

TheConductor Since: Jan, 2011
#9: Jun 14th 2012 at 3:36:53 AM

Liefeld...hard worker...are you joking?

AtomJames I need a drink Since: Apr, 2010
I need a drink
#10: Jun 14th 2012 at 3:46:51 AM

Yes he's an less than skilled artist (to put it delicately), but you have to laugh at it all really. A guy with his skills (or lack thereof) basically changing the look of an entire genre. Pretty hilarious in the grand scheme of things.

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.
cfive Since: Jan, 2001
#11: Jun 14th 2012 at 8:51:00 AM

I've always seen Liefeld art as being a So Bad, It's Good sort of thing rather than something that makes me want to gouge my eyes out. Sure, it's not particularly good looking, but it's got that cheesy over-the-top manliness to it. I think the Doom comic book would have been about twelve times more hilarious if it had been drawn by him.

Jhimmibhob Since: Dec, 2010
#12: Jun 14th 2012 at 10:21:33 AM

Yeah, I actually started a Liefeld thread a while back, because I couldn't believe that such a once-popular artist could be totally lacking in positive qualities.

I think the consensus was that, his horrible technical failings notwithstanding, he brought an uncommon amount of energy to his figures and layouts. They had the same kind of zest that inspires a 14-year-old drawing superheroes on his school folders ... and I don't mean that as an insult in the least. If Liefeld hadn't become prematurely successful—if he had spent longer paying his dues and working under more experienced hands—I think his work could have been genuinely memorable.

Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#13: Jun 14th 2012 at 11:44:53 AM

The elephant in the room everyone ignores is that outside of a few like Todd McFarlen, pretty much every 1990s American artist was drawing almost exactly like Rob, give or take. Sure, they're pectorals might have been straight, their noses may have had depth but they were mostly messes of badly shaded muscles, contorted women and inconsistent coloring.

Even Todd gave Spider-man that over sized eye costume and had panels about Audio Erotica(that had nothing to do with what Spider-man was doing) because apparently every half way decent artist was expected to be able to carry a plot too. I didn't even care about Super Mullet but I remember the Ruined Forever cries it caused. Liefeld deserves bashing but singling him out is kind of cruel, considering his decade was loaded with questionable art(and other things).

edited 14th Jun '12 11:46:16 AM by Cider

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
Gray64 Since: Dec, 1969
#14: Jun 14th 2012 at 9:42:29 PM

The bigger elephant in the room is WHY Liefeld was widely emulated. Because, in spite of his lack of technical skills, he was VERY popular. Some artists, like Art Thibert (who actually CAN draw) completely changed their style to try to capitalize on Liefeld's popularity, others were told by their editors to emulate his style. When his popularity began to fade, suddenly his emulators altered their styles again or vanished completely. Whatever influence he had didn't outlast him.

Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
#15: Jun 14th 2012 at 10:06:10 PM

That was the nineties. Comics got big for a third of it, largely off of crooked business and or artificial generated demand. None of that was sustainable so it crumbled. Marvel went bankrupt, whole companies disappeared, some dragged down by Image, which somehow Survived.

The boom of Liefeld was a symptom. Nobody remembers the Wolverine knockoffs either but they all remember Wolverine.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
Gvzbgul from Middle Earth Since: Jul, 2010
#16: Jun 15th 2012 at 3:27:04 AM

I like Liefeld, as a person. And personally I don't think 'bad art' is a thing that exists, if he were inconsistent then I'd call it bad art but he is so consistently bad that I see it more as his own personal style rather than bad art. And his own style has enabled him to be a successful comic book artist. I think he tapped into something people wanted, even today when I look at comics (mainly Jim Lee stuff) it's hard not to see that Liefeld's art was a more distilled or concentrated depiction of what other superhero artists do.

That said, I will never buy any comics he draws. Other the other hand, if he did an animated (short) film by hand it would be incredible. Some kind of avant garde work of (accidental) genius.

edited 15th Jun '12 3:29:23 AM by Gvzbgul

Gray64 Since: Dec, 1969
#17: Jun 15th 2012 at 9:24:12 PM

It has been said that inaccurate anatomy, so long as it's consistent in its inaccuracies, can constitute a cartooning style.

InverurieJones '80s TV Action Hero from North of the Wall. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
'80s TV Action Hero
#18: Jun 16th 2012 at 7:15:33 AM

Superhero comics are cartoons, really. Surely a certain cartooniness is expected?

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'
Jhimmibhob Since: Dec, 2010
#19: Jun 16th 2012 at 10:50:51 AM

[up][up]There's a difference between artistic exaggerations & simplifications that strengthen the effects you're aiming for, and those that weaken or compromise a drawing's effects. That's one of the many differences between, say, Jack Kirby and Liefeld. I don't think anyone demanded photorealism out of Liefeld, but he usually wasn't able to turn his particular drafting weaknesses into a virtue; more often, they just looked silly.

Devildart Since: Feb, 2012 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#20: Jun 16th 2012 at 4:19:47 PM

cartoonists should have at least a sense of anatomy when drawing. sure youre going to have some exagerations but when your characters looks like they shouldn't even be able to move or that their limbs are popping out of their sockets there's something wrong with it. even more so when the characters walk on the very very tip of their toes and some of the females look like their spine is about to snap. sadly this is not my first encounter with liefelds work.

http://devildart.deviantart.com
Gray64 Since: Dec, 1969
Devildart Since: Feb, 2012 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#22: Jun 16th 2012 at 11:51:14 PM

huzzah! i win...wait what did i win?

also may be late but is it just me or is the left part of that chest far larger then the right in that image...

http://devildart.deviantart.com
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#23: Jun 17th 2012 at 1:46:21 AM

Liefeld is an absolutely fascinating person. His art is... lacking some fundamental anatomy, and I resent the weird, scratchy/metallic cross hatching in his style that so many others tried to emulate. Also, some of his covers are just boring — featuring "hot" chicks and ridiculously buff dudes just standing around. He has issues with drawing hands holding something hands in general. But I can't totally hate him, alas. Mainly because he got into comics in a desperate attempt to support his family, and his ailing father.

Can we all agree that that infamous incident where some jerkass tried to give him some anatomy books (or something, I'm fuzzy on the details) at a con was still a petty and rude thing to do? Internet Backdraft has rarely been so well-earned, even if Liefeld does need them.

With all that being said, I'm not above posting this. Holy shiz. I'm starting to believe that the problem was that his star rose too fast, and his interest in improving was outpaced by that.

...Aw, who AM I kidding? The man's problems are legion, and he's only improved a little in the last 25 (yeesh) years. The list above is a great reminder of his flaws, which include:

  1. He only draws one face for women. He learned to draw one face for women, and stopped. They all have these generically cute, weird, little upturned noses.
  2. His men aren't too varied either.
  3. It's been said before, but not enough: He draws too many fucking lines, without them meaning anything. They don't serve to deliniate the figure. Less sometimes IS more.
  4. It's well-known that he draws a fuckload of muscles on his characters, but he often fails to draw the bone structure underneath. Like, there's no point drawing tons of arm muscles without a decent collarbone to support them.
  5. But holy shit, does he draw a lot of ridiculous muscles.
  6. He seems to try to draw how light affects forms, but they rarely make sense with the rest of the image, and they often turn into metallic reflections and lens flares for no reason.
  7. He draws the most ridiculous legs of all time. It's like he MUST show EVERY muscle in the legs, no matter what muscles are actually being activated along with the course of action he's "trying" to represent. This could probably apply to all of his muscles, actually.
  8. He draws the most ridiculous, even disturbing, crotches of all time. Presuming that the character is actually wearing pants, he/she will have these strange folds radiating from their crotches. No exceptions. If he ever bothered to draw clothes that weren't so ridiculously tight, he could save himself some trouble.
  9. Problems with expression; his "characters" are often just standing around, flexing at impossible angles, telling us next to nothing about their personalities. It's called storytelling. And the Dull Surprise. Oh lord, the Dull Surprise.
  10. Speaking of mouths, he tends to draw the open mouth a little too oval-shaped, making supposedly fierce warriors look more like... blowup dolls.
  11. There's also his tendency to draw men with "horse faces". He'd be perfect for drawing Beta Ray Bill; he's halfway there already!
  12. The notorious, spine-breaking Tits And Ass Pose, but that's nothing exclusive to Liefeld.
  13. When drawing characters from the front, he tends to draw their eyes lopsided. But hell, that's a mistake that I make. But Liefeld is a paid professional.
  14. His feet are notorious for, um, not existing. But they get off easy compared to his hands. He has a weird problem where he doesn't taper the wrist going into the hand enough, making the whole forearm look too thick. Also, the fingers tend to look... weird.

edited 17th Jun '12 3:33:21 AM by BearyScary

Do not obey in advance.
Devildart Since: Feb, 2012 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#24: Jun 17th 2012 at 6:57:37 AM

[up] you forgot about how he cant even draw swords correctly and how most of his guns have 2 holes for bullets to come out of even when they shouldnt.

i dont hate him...just his art as for the anatomy thing i cant call it petty seeing as the guy probably bought it with his own money and in a sense it was a way of saying dont stop where you are please try to get better. :l honestly id probably have done the same except instead of buying i would point out every flaw in his recent works which is much harsher. although more recently i would just send him a link to a certain posing website that has a character model he should be using.

although i have to say this but my arm doesnt exactly taper towards my wrist that much either. could be that its basically just bone though i doubt he has an excuse though

http://devildart.deviantart.com
NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#25: Jun 17th 2012 at 7:02:05 AM

You also forget how his artwork has no storytelling fluidity. The man is a pinup artist, but he can't handle narrative to save his life.


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