TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

A Cool And Sympathetic Third World Tinpot Dictator

Go To

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#1: Jun 10th 2012 at 4:29:00 PM

Think Doctor Doom, but a lot more relatable. One of the very small minority in his country who actually got a college education (preferably somewhere expensive and posh such as Oxbridge or or the Ivy League or a French Grande École). He's well-connected, urbane, and pretty good at political maneuvering, at least at an amateur level. He's also Unfit for Greatness, deep inside or on some crucial level, not unlike many democratically elected representatives. Except he doesn't have the checks and balances of Democracy to keep him and his family on guard and fully alert to the state of their own society. Either they grow old and start to suck, even if they remain unchallenged, and the drama comes from the succession or legacy, or they're actually toppled, and the drama comes up from the events leading up to that. Doesn't have to be because Evil Will Fail, it can be a simple case of personal, Macbeth-ish ambition from a subordinate, that would have happened regardless of the dictator's moral alignment. Or, if you want to go the Crapsack World route, have their toppling be a result of their efforts to institute democracy and leave the reigns of the country with a clean consciousness.

So, how about writing this guy as someone relateable and fun? You know, someone you could love to hate, while thinking "honestly, if I'd had been in the same circumstances as he, I might well have done the exact same thing or worse, thank God I'm in the place I belong". You know, It Gets Easier, The Banality Of Evil, and so on. And, like with, say, The Joker, the idea is to make you ashamed of thinking that, and making you reflect on what your actual values are, and if they would stand the stress of actual overwhelming "success in life".

A lot of dark humor can be achieved by giving the dictator some stupid hobby they mis-spend the national budget on. Like that arabian prince who got Agrabah built in the middle of the desert, or something even nerdier like getting a lifeszed replica of Eva-01 sniping at the horizon(with a real laser?)*

, or jockish, like a swimming pool of beer, or, well, just plain lame, like that one moviemaker Kim Jong Il sequestrated to make a monster movie for him... Heck, Ronery Kim is a fountain of ideas:

In 1978, on Kim's orders, South Korean film director Shin Sang-ok and his actress wife Choi Eun-hee were kidnapped in order to build a North Korean film industry.[106] In 2006 he was involved in the production of the Juche-based movie, Diary of a Girl Student, which depicted the life of a young girl whose parents are scientists, with a KCNA news report stating that Kim "improved its script and guided its production".[107]

In a 2011 news story, The Sun reported, "Kim Jong-il was obsessed with Elvis Presley. His mansion was crammed with his idol's records and his collection of 20,000 Hollywood movies included Presley's titles — along with Rambo and Godzilla. He even copied the King's Vegas-era look of giant shades, jumpsuits and bouffant hairstyle. It was reported in 2003 that Kim Jong-il had a huge porn film collection."[108]

Although Kim enjoyed many foreign forms of entertainment, according to former bodyguard Lee Young Kuk, he refused to consume any food or drink not produced in North Korea, with the exception of wine from France.[109] His former chef Kenji Fujimoto, however, has stated that Kim sometimes sent him around the world to purchase a variety of foreign delicacies.[110]

Kim reportedly enjoyed basketball. Former United States Secretary of State Madeleine Albright ended her summit with Kim by presenting him with a basketball signed by NBA legend Michael Jordan.[111] Also an apparent golfer, North Korean state media reports that Kim routinely shot three or four holes-in-one per round.[112] His official biography also claims that Kim composed six operas and enjoys staging elaborate musicals.[113] Kim referred to himself as an Internet expert.[114]

United States Special Envoy for the Korean Peace Talks, Charles Kartman, who was involved in the 2000 Madeleine Albright summit with Kim, characterised Kim as a reasonable man in negotiations, to the point, but with a sense of humor and personally attentive to the people he was hosting.[115] However, psychological evaluations conclude that Kim Jong-il's antisocial features, such as his fearlessness in the face of sanctions and punishment, served to make negotiations extraordinarily difficult.[116]

The field of psychology has long been fascinated with the personality assessment of dictators, a notion that resulted in an extensive personality evaluation of Kim Jong-il. The report, compiled by Frederick L. Coolidge and Daniel L. Segal (with the assistance of a South Korean psychiatrist considered an expert on Kim Jong-il's behavior), concluded that the "big six" group of personality disorders shared by dictators Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, and Saddam Hussein (sadistic, paranoid, antisocial, narcissistic, schizoid and schizotypal) were also shared by Kim Jong-il — coinciding primarily with the profile of Saddam Hussein.[116]

The evaluation found Kim Jong-il appeared to pride himself on North Korea's independence, despite the extreme hardships it appears to place on the North Korean people — an attribute appearing to emanate from his antisocial personality pattern.[116] This notion also encourages other cognitive issues, such as self-deception, as subsidiary components to Kim Jong-il's personality.

Now how do you take an asshole like that and make him The Everyman à la Jim Hacker from Yes Minister.

edited 10th Jun '12 4:31:05 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
KillerClowns Since: Jan, 2001
#2: Jun 10th 2012 at 5:36:30 PM

My (debatable) suggestion? Keep him more Obliviously Evil than actively malevolent. A guy who never personally tortures or rapes anybody, would never order it done, and would probably kill any of his underlings who did so if he found out about it... but who doesn't think to monitor his security forces too closely. Who sincerely believes his insane projects will/are helping his economy because the various ministers around him keep saying they are so they can keep on getting kickbacks from them. That sort of thing. Also, Refuge in Audacity, absurd yet sincerely generous rewards for those who please him, and (this last one is debatable) ham in industrial quantities.

DerelictVessel Flying Dutchman from the Ocean Blue Since: May, 2012
Flying Dutchman
#3: Jun 11th 2012 at 12:56:42 AM

So, how about writing this guy as someone relateable and fun?

The simplest and most reliable way is to make him hilarious and everybody around him completely insane.

Though they are about to release that in movie form, so I guess you're out of luck in that regard.

"Can ye fathom the ocean, dark and deep, where the mighty waves and the grandeur sweep?"
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#4: Jun 11th 2012 at 1:03:01 AM

Oh? Sacha Baron Cohen? But that's more about having him interact with Americans, no?

Plus, the guy is a walking strawman. My premise is more: "what if you had been put in a situation where becoming a dictator made sense for you, and how do you stop your inner demons from overcoming you when everyone is eager to lick your boots or murder you?"

edited 11th Jun '12 1:08:31 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Night The future of warfare in UC. from Jaburo Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
The future of warfare in UC.
#5: Jun 11th 2012 at 1:41:15 AM

[up]He's not really that dissimilar in the movie from the late, great Col. K/G/Quaddifi, may his spellings be many.

And he's considerably less bloodthirsty than, say, Idi Amin or Pol Pot, while being both that and more sane than Papa Doc.

Nous restons ici.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#6: Jun 11th 2012 at 2:27:45 AM

Talk about Damned by Faint Praise...

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Natasel Since: Nov, 2010
#7: Jun 11th 2012 at 10:10:47 AM

Could you just start with someone who was already Cool and Sympathetic then make him a Third World Tinpot Dictator?

Get someone your target audience would identify with, a Boy Next Door, the Everyman, Mr. Normal.

Who just happens to be the bastard son of Tinpotia's dreaded Dictator Dicator! tongue

You could have absolute power in the hands of a woman or child if you want the female and pre-teen market.

edited 11th Jun '12 10:18:10 AM by Natasel

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#8: Jun 11th 2012 at 1:31:03 PM

[up]South Park did it already.

If I want to pull something like Yes Prime Minister but with an actual dictator, I'll be needing to do tons of research on the issues faced by such regimes, from their own perspective...

As for starting off with someone that is already kind of cool and sympathetic but downright sociopathic... I could copy some traits from the typical Rock Star or from that one crazy journalist. Let me see...

We were flying somewhere near the edge of New York when the drugs started to take hold. I was nearly ready for my speech at the UN, and for the crowd that would surround me on the way there. One thing I learned while dictating* over one of the major cannabis exporters in the world** for twenty years***, was that drugs can help you reach that detached state where you can see the world with a broader, more dispassionate perspective.**** Your perspective on stuff you already know, that is: updating your beliefs, conversely, becomes much more difficult.

Now, well, while I've graduated from Balliol College, I'll confess that I spent most of my time there coasting, and squandering my parents' wealth: it appears that that's Balliol's de facto function: funding the university by selling incredibly overpriced majors in, say, Gender Studies, or Sociology, or Hebraic Philology. I studied History and Politics, which I never expected to actually make use of. See, as the Benjamin of a five-son family, I was never raised for greatness*

, I was never taught how to deal with actual, serious power without it blowing in my face. Had to learn on the fly. And it looks like it wasn't enough after all. Oh well.

I also confess that, on top of being a mediocre student, I'm also a very poor speaker of English as a secondary language. So I apologize in advance for any errors in style, format, or register: I've got a bit of a tendency to write in a "bloody sophisticated" style. Such a strong tendency, in fact, that I just gave up on correcting it. Do be so kind as to give me a fucking break: I had a country to run, and speech-writers and the like could take care of all the proper formulation of stuff, especially in regards to the Great Powers. Though, when it comes to my compatriots, when I've got something to say to them, I just address them in plain vernacular. That way they know I say what I mean and I mean what I say. Scares'em straight, the little buggers: by now they know that when I whip out the F bombs, the actual B bombs ain't lagging very far behind, bwahaha.*

So I'm supposed to pay for my crimes huh? I'd love to see you do better. Here, let me tell you how it all began...

Gosh, what a Footnote Fever. I know I'm writing an intoxicated, half-mad, ranty old man, but this is borderline unforgivable... I really should learn to write normally before attempting this advanced stuff... Was it funny at least?

edited 16th Jun '12 12:28:03 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
MarkThis Since: Jan, 2012
#9: Jun 12th 2012 at 12:21:43 AM

[up]I don't like it. He's too rich, too smug, and too crazy.

Natasel Since: Nov, 2010
#10: Jun 12th 2012 at 10:22:12 PM

Well, for cool, just add Rock n Roll.

For Sympathetic, add Bishonen Good Looks and Beiber style singing and you've got the tweens (and maybe their moms).

Natasel Since: Nov, 2010
#12: Jun 13th 2012 at 12:18:04 AM

[up] Nods.

Make the guy "Sparkle" in the sunlight and he could be a baby eating monster and the girls will adore him for it.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#13: Jun 13th 2012 at 12:58:00 AM

I think there's more to Shiny Psychic Fast Eddie Cullen than being shiny, otherwise all the vampires in that story would be girl-charmers, and they aren't. As for Bieber, he has that so-innocent-and-pure-smile-it-is-obviously-a-lie charm: a false promise of eternal love that might be true is a lot more attractive than a certain true one.

Though in-universe there might be women who find him attractive precisely because he is willing and able to get them killed anytime if he feels like it, especially if he's also handsome and well-bred: they'll go out of their way to make excuses for him. Add in a selection bias, a halo effect, and a sunken cost fallacy, and you've got a recipe for a fanatic harem.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Night The future of warfare in UC. from Jaburo Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
The future of warfare in UC.
#14: Jun 13th 2012 at 4:34:46 AM

[up]If you're assuming there's more to Eddie than sparkles, you...may not have read the book.

Nous restons ici.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#15: Jun 13th 2012 at 9:07:45 AM

I've read the books. All of them. Each in a different language (I was travelling). It's basically a Shoujo manga in novel form. I thought it was a great page-turner, if nothing else.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Natasel Since: Nov, 2010
#16: Jun 13th 2012 at 10:21:44 AM

Is it important that this 3rd world tinpot dictator be male? Can he be flamboyantly gay? Openly New Wave who embraces eco-nutty, Embrace Earth Mother type?

Anything that identifies him with trending social movements just might do it.

To be cool, one has to be with the times.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#17: Jun 13th 2012 at 10:33:43 AM

You know, if you keep consistently giving terrible advice like that, people will end up thinking you're some kind of troll.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Natasel Since: Nov, 2010
#18: Jun 14th 2012 at 9:57:21 AM

Well I can't think of any other way to make a 3rd World Tinpot Dictator be "Cool and Sympathetic".

They normally have an image problem a half dozen PR firms would have a hard time solving.

The only thing left I can think of is to do the unexpected to win over the crowd.

Either this means stepping down peacefully (which disqualifies the 3rd World Tinpot Dicator title), being extremely upfront and open about using murder, torture and the like (which would make him more honest than the USA anyway) or take Refuge in Audacity by warning and carrying out the threat to murder anyone who harms or speaks ill of him and his without appology.

Like The Godfather. Only with atomic bombs, a fanatical armed force and no hesitation to send the severed heads of foreign diplomats back as a warning.

edited 14th Jun '12 10:03:38 AM by Natasel

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#19: Jun 14th 2012 at 11:51:17 AM

[up]Then people would just stop sending him diplomats altogether.

As for honesty, why compare him to the US of all countries?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Natasel Since: Nov, 2010
#20: Jun 14th 2012 at 5:31:26 PM

Comparing him to North Korea would not have made as good a contrast.

Ok, its possible the Third World Tinpot Dictator might actually look GOOD in comparison but... tongue

edited 14th Jun '12 5:35:07 PM by Natasel

Noaqiyeum we must dissent (it/they) from across the gulf of space (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
we must dissent (it/they)
#21: Jul 6th 2012 at 11:48:13 AM

I'm kind of reminded of Luca deSadar - iron-fisted tyrant with a brutal secret service who really does care about his country (if not necessarily the individual citizens). His family, especially his wife, act as his Morality Pet until his wife dies in what seems to be an assassination attempt. He does not tolerate dissent and suppresses it with propaganda, torture, and a cult of personality, but he's actively involved in trying to make the Northern Territories racially-integrated, and as far as international ethics goes he actually has the moral high ground - the nation trying to make peace with him is a broadly-democratic society who want to blame all the previous strife between them on a single, now-dead scapegoat, and ignore the thousands of citizens who put him in charge.

edited 6th Jul '12 11:49:09 AM by Noaqiyeum

ERROR: The current state of the world is unacceptable. Save anyway? YES/NO
DarkSoldier from Delta, BC, Canada Since: May, 2018 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
#22: Jul 8th 2012 at 2:40:50 AM

Perhaps seeing him balancing the interests of various foreign powers and special interest groups to keep himself in power because he can't trust anyone (not even his trusted advisers) to keep his country prosperous would go toward sympathizing him.

My Blog | My Steam profile
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#23: Jul 8th 2012 at 11:57:35 AM

That's more of a Magnificent Bastard route à la Tropico, but I guess it could work.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Natasel Since: Nov, 2010
#24: Jul 9th 2012 at 1:57:18 AM

Make him a Bad Ass?

If he's a Dictator, he probably has to hold to power with an iron fist, and guys like that need a certain level of luck, guts, ruthlessness and brains to keep things going.

Is he a Cultured Bad Ass?

He was educated in the West, perhaps he can speak more than a dozen languages fluently and specializes in justifying his actions?, threatening the safety and security of critical supply lanes, or just uses Chain of Deals in order to keep his position of power, playing off opposing power blocks against each other to gain favor/support or at least neutrality.

Is he a War Hero with his own Bad Ass Crew and Bad Ass Army?

If he became dicator by killing the last guy who had the job, it was probably in a war where he had a chance to shine.

Its one thing to be a fat old blow hard of a dicator who proclaims his own (fake) honors, its quite another for your man to be a TRUE War Hero. The sort of guy who led from the front, bleed with the men and fought with honor and integrity, a man even his enemies respect and call a Worthy Foe and fear his wrath.

Or you could go for unrepentant jackass who Bribed His Way To Victory.

The old guy's hidden wealth, and a few "disloyal" cronies had to be thrown to the masses of course, and maybe his personal bank accounts are now empty, and he had to sell some mineral rights here and there, but by giving his citizens bribe money directly for votes (instead of spending money on civic projects), he keeps his position by always topping the bid votes come election year.

He'd WANT to spend more on improving his nation of course, but as the situation stands, most of his expenses is tied up in keep the people on his side with bribes, leaving next to nothing for education, infrastructre upgrades, toilet paper for his "palace" sad

edited 9th Jul '12 1:58:46 AM by Natasel

DarkSoldier from Delta, BC, Canada Since: May, 2018 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
#25: Jul 9th 2012 at 6:44:05 PM

[up][up]That's exactly what I was thinking of, actually. "All work and no play for Presidenté..."

My Blog | My Steam profile

Total posts: 26
Top