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MOD NOTE: Please note the following part of the forum rules:

If you don't like a thread, don't post in it. Posting in a thread simply to say you don't like it, or that it's stupid, or to point out that you 'knew who made it before you even clicked on it', or to predict that it will end badly will get you warned.

The initial OP posted below covers it well enough: the premise of this thread is that men's issues exist. Don't bother posting if you don't believe there is such a thing.


Here's hoping this isn't considered too redundant. I've noticed that our existing threads about sexism tend to get bogged down in Oppression Olympics or else wildly derailed, so I thought I'd make a thread specifically to talk about discrimination issues that disproportionately affect men.

No Oppression Olympics here, okay? No saying "But that's not important because women suffer X which is worse!" And no discussing these issues purely in terms of how much better women have it. Okay? If the discussion cannot meaningfully proceed without making a comparison to male and female treatment, that's fine, but on the whole I want this thread to be about how men are harmed by society and how we can fix it. Issues like:

  • The male-only draft (in countries that have one)
  • Circumcision
  • Cavalier attitudes toward men's pain and sickness, AKA "Walk it off!"
  • The Success Myth, which defines a man's desirability by his material success. Also The Myth of Men Not Being Hot, which denies that men can be sexually attractive as male beings.
  • Sexual abuse of men.
  • Family law.
  • General attitudes that men are dangerous or untrustworthy.

I could go on making the list, but I think you get the idea.

Despite what you might have heard about feminists not caring about men, it's not true. I care about men. Patriarchy sucks for them as much as it sucks for women, in a lot of ways. So I'm putting my keyboard where my mouth is and making a thread for us to all care about men.

Also? If you're male and think of something as a men's issue, by golly that makes it a men's issue fit for inclusion in this thread. I might disagree with you as to the solution, but as a woman I'm not going to tell you you have no right to be concerned about it. No "womansplaining" here.

Edited by nombretomado on Dec 15th 2019 at 5:19:34 AM

GearFriedTheKnight BLOCKING - A weapon for the 21st century. from The nearest road that can be raced (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
BLOCKING - A weapon for the 21st century.
#22626: Aug 27th 2025 at 11:23:14 AM

I mean, wrestling had Gorgeous George, Adrian Street and what have you not, and through cruiserweights and light heavyweights later gave a different idea of the type of athlete whilst women have used wrestling as an equalizer since The Eighties in many parts of the world (it only took the States until the two-thousands to catch up because of Vincent Kennedy McMahon Junior... and it wasn't even through him, it was because of Finlay and TNA!). Wrestling even had extremely diverse crowds until the WWF rolled in and destroyed the ecosystem (which was already in trouble due to the NWA's mishandling of the territories and the bookers doing dumber and dumber things), and was an engine to help desegregation down south.

I swear wrestling probably has depicted healthy masculinity at times because it shows male wrestlers crying, letting out their emotions, worrying about others (Dusty Rhodes' two promos, "Hard Times" and "The View Never Changes"). A lot of the more toxic aspects happen backstage away from the cameras for a reason.

''There's no magic in tuning; yet, it's something that tends to escape from any logic."
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#22627: Aug 27th 2025 at 7:25:40 PM

Wrestling in the US becoming more homogenized did begin with the WWF's national expansion. It wouldn't be until WCW brought the Luchadors in and raised the spotlight on Cruiserweights and international wrestlers (such as Fit Finlay, Steven/William Regal and the Big Bradwurst Alex Wright) that American audiences became more aware of different wrestling styles other than what the WWF was showing at the time. In comparison, Vince was petty enough to dress Dusty up in polka dots and reduce him to a comedy character when he had no choice but to find work in WWF. Vince was fond of doing that to wrestlers to mock them and to please himself such as taking advantage of a recently escaped from homelessness Tony Atlas to dress him up as Saba Simba. It was also during the Rock N' Wrestling era when wrestlers were pressured to take steroids to bulk up due to Vince's obsession with body guys and his own obsession with bodybuilding.

The health problems certainly became worse 1st during the Rock and Wrestling Era as mentioned above and it grew even worse during the late 90s when ECW popularized hardcore wrestling (on top of all the genuine lunatics in it like New Jack) and fans wanted an edgier wrestling which the Monday Night Wars and later the Ruthless Aggression era delivered.

Edited by KRider on Aug 27th 2025 at 10:28:02 PM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#22628: Aug 27th 2025 at 7:37:17 PM

Tangentially related, but people around me tend to get surprised that I'm into wrestling and other martial arts and combat sports (I used to train in BJJ and boxing, but now it's just boxing).

Living in a very hyper-patriarchial society, I usually am the only man who is somewhat willing to speak out against toxic masculinity and even in favor of feminism.

As such, some dudebros around me say to my face that I'm a weak man...but they seem to be a lot less willing, after learning that I used to wrestle at college (though in a club level, not at team) and still practice combat sports.

Unfortunately, however, I'm fully aware how there are major combat sports-related fields and organizations that attract manosphere guys and fascists, like UFC and the Gracies.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#22629: Aug 27th 2025 at 7:46:42 PM

[up]It's half-jokingly said that when pro wrestling in the US started welcoming women back as serious wrestlers and not eye candy as well as welcoming LGBTQ+ wrestlers and moving away from Attitude Era-style violence and exploitative themes, the more rightwing fans migrated to MMA.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#22630: Aug 27th 2025 at 7:54:22 PM

One big problem is that young men feel so powerless and not in control. But the problem is that objectively speaking, men are the ones who have the power and privilege in society. We don't know how to reconcile this paradox. And so when grifters and con artists and other bad actors come out and blame women / minorities / whoever for taking power away, young men eat it up.

Interesting, though I think there is a technically simple solution that has to do with the literal definition of "patriarchy" rule by fathers (which by definition is not all men. But rather people with a role in "guiding" the youth. Its not just mean but men who are leaders)

of course articulating that to people drowning in koolaid is easier said than done, especially when the young men in question are lead to believe they are already leaders. It has to do with "principles" similar to that quote about giving (white) people someone to look down upon.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Aug 27th 2025 at 7:54:36 AM

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#22631: Aug 27th 2025 at 7:56:12 PM

[up][up] ...While I already am well aware of MMA attracting more right wing males, I never thought about that kind of divergence and contrast.

Edited by dRoy on Aug 27th 2025 at 11:57:36 PM

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#22632: Aug 27th 2025 at 8:01:58 PM

[up][up]A lot of the older men grew up with this crap and internalized it. And they've lived with it for so long that they cannot teach young men to be better. Even though that's ideally what parents are supposed to do for their kids: teach them to be better.

Edited by M84 on Aug 27th 2025 at 11:02:11 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#22633: Aug 27th 2025 at 8:36:33 PM

The current problems with toxic masculinity as well as wealth inequality making it even worse is pretty much centuries of avoiding to address those problems until it's become the cancer that it currently is.

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AoeAbility Akarat bless you. from Personal Evil Tower of Ominousness Since: Mar, 2021 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
#22634: Sep 6th 2025 at 2:00:52 PM

I lately hear about the whole "Performative Male" discourse and all I can say is that it really doesn't help my self-esteem.

As in, I'm trying to escape the recent stereotype of "all Gen Z men are alt-right gym-going dudebros" and now there is a high chance someone will call me a poser for it.

You keep using the term "POV". I do not think it means what you think it means.
GearFriedTheKnight BLOCKING - A weapon for the 21st century. from The nearest road that can be raced (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
BLOCKING - A weapon for the 21st century.
#22635: Sep 6th 2025 at 2:41:46 PM

The easier thing to do is not care and carry on, as with anyone screeching about those topics. My suggestion would also be to unplug at this point, because from my extremely limited POV, it doesn't seem the internet is doing any good for you right now.

Edited by GearFriedTheKnight on Sep 6th 2025 at 11:42:22 AM

''There's no magic in tuning; yet, it's something that tends to escape from any logic."
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#22636: Sep 6th 2025 at 3:55:49 PM

Anecdotally, offline spaces also have the same problem of being trapped in an echo chamber especially in traditionally closed-off spaces such as older gamers and comic book geeks. It took having to take a job at a call center and get exposed to other kinds of people, especially LGBTQ+ people, that finally got me to be myself. Regarding gyms specifically, there are usually LGBTQ+ friendly gyms or gyms with a decent mixed male-to-female ratio in most places.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#22637: Sep 6th 2025 at 3:57:38 PM

Speaking of gyms, I have one near my home, and has both men and women attending it.

Granted, it's for the residents who live there but that's besides the point.

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
Stage7-4 Since: Nov, 2014
#22638: Sep 7th 2025 at 8:24:21 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought "preformative male" means a guy that takes an interest in trends women currently like simply for the sake of courting them and not genuine interest. Matcha tea, Labubus, the latest booktok rec, etc. It's not a guy doing stereotypical guy stuff (lifting weights, eating red meat, driving a truck, etc) for the sake of appearing more "manly."

I ask because the discourse I've seen around the subject seems to flop between both definitions with little consistency.

Not that it matters because we've seen this all before. Like you can plot it back to the 60's from soy-boys to hipsters to yuppies to hippies. Just a new word used to either reinforce or shame behavior.

Edited by Stage7-4 on Sep 7th 2025 at 8:25:15 AM

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#22639: Sep 7th 2025 at 8:27:09 AM

Then again, those terms lose any meaning really fast.

Wake me up at your own risk.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#22640: Sep 7th 2025 at 8:27:18 AM

This Man Carrying Things vid sums up the whole "performative male" thing:

The whole thing gets kind of meta and raises questions about personal identity in general.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Stage7-4 Since: Nov, 2014
#22641: Sep 7th 2025 at 8:34:30 AM

Then again, those terms lose any meaning really fast.

You'd think so but if this happens every time the patriarchal mold needs a patch job as men start to break from it, just calling it by a different name is an illusion meant to hide the fact that this is cyclic.

GearFriedTheKnight BLOCKING - A weapon for the 21st century. from The nearest road that can be raced (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
BLOCKING - A weapon for the 21st century.
#22642: Sep 7th 2025 at 9:15:11 AM

It may be because of the environment I was raised, but I swear there are moments where I feel like I'm the only person I know who flat-out does not care about "manly" and "womanly" things. And I use airquotes because I just don't think that way — I hardly ever thought there were things for girls or for boys ever since I was in junior high, nowadays I just say it's a whole load of made up garbage.

I don't need to do anything to "be a man", I feel like a man and I say I'm a man, full stop. What I do, such as being a car guy, is because I genuinely enjoy, most definitely not to prove anything to anyone or to comform to some ridiculous idea.

Which is also my weakness, however, as I struggle to reach out to those who do exactly that and get them to steer away from such thoughts and instead just be themselves.

''There's no magic in tuning; yet, it's something that tends to escape from any logic."
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#22643: Sep 15th 2025 at 7:53:40 PM

I've heard it suggested that some men realize that expressing their true emotions can be seen as weakness. I've also heard that some men believe that while partners may desire more emotional expression, they may then question the man's ability to protect their family. Is there merit to these ideas, or are they just based on harmful stereotypes?

"Fan, a Mega Man character."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#22644: Sep 15th 2025 at 8:19:27 PM

Ask yourself this: how often have male characters cried onscreen and it wasn't framed as something funny or a sign of weakness?

Disgusted, but not surprised
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#22645: Sep 15th 2025 at 8:48:02 PM

[up]It's one of the things I appreciate about One Piece; the mangaka is not afraid to have his male characters cry, and he often does a very good job making said crying look incredibly raw.

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#22646: Sep 15th 2025 at 8:59:44 PM

And have it happen to all sorts of varied man.The badass weirdo, The strongest man in the world, The faithful soldier that sees his country freed and gets to hold his daughter's hand, the sweet, kind, loving man who had who took the baby girl of the love of his life as his own daughter crying because his sacrifice will save his little girl.

Not to mention Fist Of The North Star, which is even bigger on dead serious badasses crying Tender Tears.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#22647: Sep 15th 2025 at 9:03:15 PM

Men allowing themselves to cry is more common in Asian media. Pretty much 1 of the few Western media where men can show emotion say that they love each other is pro wrestling.

[up]Not just the Tender Tears and Manly Tears. Anytime when the heroes spend time in peaceful communities and they look happy seeing that life's still finding a way to thrive even during the Apunkalypse.

Edited by KRider on Sep 16th 2025 at 12:05:46 AM

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AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#22648: Sep 15th 2025 at 9:04:53 PM

[up] So sad men are leaving pro wrestling then.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#22649: Sep 15th 2025 at 9:10:37 PM

[up]It's 1 of the effects of Vince McMahon's national expansion that devoured the territories in the US during the 1980s and later the Attitude Era during the late 1990s that pro wrestling promos devolved into big burly men yelling incoherently or men saying mostly swear words and catchphrases to each other. That period's a far cry from Dusty Rhodes' Hard Times promo before that era or, for examples of excellent promos after that era, Eddie Guerrero's promo against Brock Lesnar or Shawn Michaels retiring Ric Flair and Flair's retirement the next night on Raw. Granted, while even indy promotions do have men showing emotions, there are still some promotions that still go for either politically incorrect storytelling (the revived XPW is 1 notorious example) and some promotions that still go for the stoic manly men (the short-lived Control Your Narrative promotion headed by EC3) but those promotions have very little fanbases in comparison to everyone else.

Edited by KRider on Sep 16th 2025 at 12:14:57 AM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
Travsam The Reconqueror from The Spanish side of Europe Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: My elf kissing days are over
The Reconqueror
#22650: Sep 16th 2025 at 1:33:43 AM

Probably that's why I loved more Lucha Libre than Wrestling, the luchadores are not exactly having muscled people (hey, we have even pint sized fighters that make the people say wooow), or luchadoras that was having everything except fan-service...

Sadly, at this point of history, seems that lucha libre right now is only a tourist product rather than an entertainment product in Mexico.


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