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The initial OP posted below covers it well enough: the premise of this thread is that men's issues exist. Don't bother posting if you don't believe there is such a thing.
Here's hoping this isn't considered too redundant. I've noticed that our existing threads about sexism tend to get bogged down in Oppression Olympics or else wildly derailed, so I thought I'd make a thread specifically to talk about discrimination issues that disproportionately affect men.
No Oppression Olympics here, okay? No saying "But that's not important because women suffer X which is worse!" And no discussing these issues purely in terms of how much better women have it. Okay? If the discussion cannot meaningfully proceed without making a comparison to male and female treatment, that's fine, but on the whole I want this thread to be about how men are harmed by society and how we can fix it. Issues like:
- The male-only draft (in countries that have one)
- Circumcision
- Cavalier attitudes toward men's pain and sickness, AKA "Walk it off!"
- The Success Myth, which defines a man's desirability by his material success. Also The Myth of Men Not Being Hot, which denies that men can be sexually attractive as male beings.
- Sexual abuse of men.
- Family law.
- General attitudes that men are dangerous or untrustworthy.
I could go on making the list, but I think you get the idea.
Despite what you might have heard about feminists not caring about men, it's not true. I care about men. Patriarchy sucks for them as much as it sucks for women, in a lot of ways. So I'm putting my keyboard where my mouth is and making a thread for us to all care about men.
Also? If you're male and think of something as a men's issue, by golly that makes it a men's issue fit for inclusion in this thread. I might disagree with you as to the solution, but as a woman I'm not going to tell you you have no right to be concerned about it. No "womansplaining" here.
Edited by nombretomado on Dec 15th 2019 at 5:19:34 AM
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The point isn't that people don't find the Captain America helicopter bicep scene sexy, I am certain people do. I myself find that super sexy for starters. But the point is to realize that sex appeal isn't the primary purpose of that scene, nor are women the primary audience. That's a male power fantasy scene first and foremost, it's meant to tell guys "wow look how cool and strong he is, don't you wish you looked like him? Don't you wish you could BE him?!" So for the majority of action films, when you see the actor showing off his muscles there's a good 80% chance it's meant for male power fantasy.
The female gaze is just a bonus perk.
It's interesting that you brought up Henry Cavill building a PC because that's the perfect counter example of what most women actually find sexy. While there is no doubt Henry is a very handsome man with prominent muscles, he's also not in his "absolutely shredded Superman physique" and his muscles aren't the primary focus of the video in the same way the helicopter bicep flex is. A good chunk of the sex appeal is instead how it humanizes Henry: he's not playing a character, this is a personal video he shot and not a promo nor for a movie, he's giving you a glimpse into his private life by showing off his hobby (one that's counter-stereotype of a hunky movie star). The sex appeal is as much his emotional vulnerability as it is his looks.
This conversation started to answer why the toxic male ideal physique looks different from what women are generally attracted to, but the ultimate take-away is that you shouldn't base your appearance to appeal to other people. Whether that's the patriarchy, other men, or other women. How you look should be a mixture of personal preference and health, and it sucks that men feel so much pressure to conform to some ideal body.
Edited by Stage7-4 on Aug 2nd 2025 at 9:34:28 AM
Just so I understand, you think the Predator handshake wasn't a power fantasy or did I get that backwards? Two buff dudes greet each other with a handshake before it turns into an arm wrestling match, with Arnold goading his buddy on with "what's the matter? The CIA got you pushing too many pencils?"
It's pretty clearly intended as a display of dominance and bravado, with a camaraderie garnish. It's a scene shot for the male gaze.
Edited by Stage7-4 on Aug 4th 2025 at 6:49:04 AM
While I'm not the final say on these and it is open to some interpretation, this seems pretty clear male power fantasy to me. The lead up chase is rough, jittery, and with frequent cuts. The music is intense until a triumphant swell when he flexes the helicopter closer, and it's interrupted by a near decapitation via helicopter blades. It's just not set up in a way intending to titillate, and seems to clearly paint Steve Rogers as a badass.
I'd compare Magic Mike XXL's gas station scene for what "showing off for the ladies" looks like.
Edited by Stage7-4 on Aug 4th 2025 at 10:56:56 AM
the helicopter scene is for men, it just chris evans body feel closer to female gaze, it strong but is soft enought.
women dont mind muscular guys but there is a point of dismising return with the super swole, vein muscle(the whole "hugh jackman, late hugh jackman is a good example"). Chris evans is probably a good exmple: he look fit but still soft to the touch.
You can see this at times with yaoi or boy love who are often very popular with women have strong but not that strong men in it.
I remenber a video, that talk about what atract men and women by someone who analize fan fic and porn tag and come to some conclusion: that men react to some indicator like tits, ass, other organ I cant remenber and surprising....dicks, not seriously.
with women it was more difuse if I remenber well but it said age can be which is why for example edward from twilight have htis fantasy of a young looking older men. desirability was another, the more exclusive the better.
for the lack of me I cant remenber were was the video, I know it was a bald researcher and compared porn tags and fan fiction.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Sorry for bump but I thought the whole effeminate male in Eastern media being a minor thing is not true.
Aside from comics (manga manhua, etc.) and animated stuff, you can even see it on their video games. Even the easily accessible gacha games - the male gaze pandering ones that feature male more often than not feature an effeminate male. Like unless you're already an established male design being traditionally masculine, the male character will most likely be lithe and lean.
It's the whole "twink" Guilty Gear vs "bara" Genshin Impact again
It's a meme. There was a meme that the slimmest Guilty Gear boy is bigger than the buffest Genshin Impact man. Which is sorta true, at least among the playable cast. The Genshin npcs are jacked, and Star Rail at least gets their Solo Leveling Jinwoo's with Phianon.
Although am I the only one bothered when K-pop boy bands get called "twinks"? It's not the appropriation of queer terms onto a mostly straight genre meant to appeal to women that bugs me, it's more the physique inflation and masculinity bar-raising it plays into. That hunky boys with chiseled features, sharp eyebrows, and dark hair singing about how women are sweet like soda pop is effeminate... somehow?!
Guys, is it gay to like women?
Edited by Stage7-4 on Aug 11th 2025 at 6:10:43 AM
I've heard the word used in that fashion from a queer Youtube Essayist, Viveros, who used it to describe it as one of the 3 major forms of masculine sexual presentation based on body types. He basically grouped male body sexualization into three prominent and popular categories, twinks, hunks, and bears.
Twinks are the more slim, sometimes androgynous, young boyish look usually associated with the common anime pretty boy, K-Pop boy band idols, or healthy, but not athletic teenagers or men in their early 20s. Hunk is the toned muscular chiseled Western ideal, as seen in body builders or the average superhero. Bears are the bulky heavy guys, the type whose body portrays strength, but also can have a gut, think the dad bod, actual power lifters, or Sig Curtis from Full Metal Alchemist.
Based on your obvious reference to KDH, 3 of the 5 Saja Boys would be considered unambiguous twinks under that definition. Baby, Romance, and Mystery would be the twinks, Abby being in hunk territory, and Jinu kind of skirting the line.
Part of the thesis was to show that there is an actual language for sexualization of men, and the whole "its hard to sexualize them" idea, including for the eyes of women is bunk. Part of the reason given that it's considered difficult is that for a long time, heterosexual women and queer men's voices in their own sexuality has been subdued, so what is considered pleasurable to them has to also gain approval and be non-offensive to the patriarchal norms of society, at least from a Western perspective. That sort of thing gets thrown for a loop when you blend cultures with different ideals of beauty.
Edited by HeyMikey on Aug 11th 2025 at 7:19:23 AM
It boils down to women and queer men not being allowed to have any say in mainstream media about what they find attractive for the longest time.
Disgusted, but not surprisedYeah twink went from being mostly a queer voice to now something the internet uses normally due to osmosis, and more or less generally gets the term a bit consistent. K-pop artists are usually called twinks because of their slim, lanky build.
As for the meme, it's mostly because of kotaku calling Sin Kiske a twink, despite clearly someone who works out a lot. And it just rolled there, so you got Anji being called a twink too.
Edited by Ookamikun on Aug 11th 2025 at 9:09:03 AM
It should be noted that K-pop boy bands rise to fame in their teens, so they're about as manly as you can expect a Korean teenage boy to be.
So calling them twinks for not being man enough when they're not even old enough to be a man yet feels kinda messed up.

I'm basing this on the women I've dated and the one I'm currently seeing.
For context, most of my pictures don't show my body because I like using a lot of black and body concealing clothes. So, when I met most of them plenty of the women I've dated were pleasantly surprised with my physique. To the point I bluntly asked them what they really liked on a men's body.
From what I got, most like men being tall, or at least taller than them, chest line being well defined and thick arms. Surprisingly most of them downright said that they don't really mid a bit of gut and don't care if I have or not a 6 pack and ripped abs.
Still, take it as a grain of salt because as far as dating goes, this is mostly a self selecting sample, as the women that like other kinds of male bodies wouldn't really have a second date.
But as far as male attractiveness standards for South American, given both the media and the report from women in general, mostly has things like tall, muscular but not necessarily ripped bodies and a confident.
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