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Sexism and Men's Issues

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MOD NOTE: Please note the following part of the forum rules:

If you don't like a thread, don't post in it. Posting in a thread simply to say you don't like it, or that it's stupid, or to point out that you 'knew who made it before you even clicked on it', or to predict that it will end badly will get you warned.

The initial OP posted below covers it well enough: the premise of this thread is that men's issues exist. Don't bother posting if you don't believe there is such a thing.


Here's hoping this isn't considered too redundant. I've noticed that our existing threads about sexism tend to get bogged down in Oppression Olympics or else wildly derailed, so I thought I'd make a thread specifically to talk about discrimination issues that disproportionately affect men.

No Oppression Olympics here, okay? No saying "But that's not important because women suffer X which is worse!" And no discussing these issues purely in terms of how much better women have it. Okay? If the discussion cannot meaningfully proceed without making a comparison to male and female treatment, that's fine, but on the whole I want this thread to be about how men are harmed by society and how we can fix it. Issues like:

  • The male-only draft (in countries that have one)
  • Circumcision
  • Cavalier attitudes toward men's pain and sickness, AKA "Walk it off!"
  • The Success Myth, which defines a man's desirability by his material success. Also The Myth of Men Not Being Hot, which denies that men can be sexually attractive as male beings.
  • Sexual abuse of men.
  • Family law.
  • General attitudes that men are dangerous or untrustworthy.

I could go on making the list, but I think you get the idea.

Despite what you might have heard about feminists not caring about men, it's not true. I care about men. Patriarchy sucks for them as much as it sucks for women, in a lot of ways. So I'm putting my keyboard where my mouth is and making a thread for us to all care about men.

Also? If you're male and think of something as a men's issue, by golly that makes it a men's issue fit for inclusion in this thread. I might disagree with you as to the solution, but as a woman I'm not going to tell you you have no right to be concerned about it. No "womansplaining" here.

Edited by nombretomado on Dec 15th 2019 at 5:19:34 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#22151: Apr 8th 2025 at 12:40:50 AM

The irony of course is that Bruce Banner in the comics is a consequence of toxic masculinity. Bruce's Hulks are all trauma responses to his father Brian Banner's abuse of him as a child. The "Joe Fixit" Gray Hulk in particular was a young Bruce's childish view of what a "real" man is.

Disgusted, but not surprised
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#22152: Apr 8th 2025 at 2:43:22 AM

Speaking of positive male role models in fiction, would the various heroes in Fist of the North Star count? Besides Kenshiro and Toki there's also Rei, Shu, Fudo as well as to some extent Juza and Ein.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#22153: Apr 8th 2025 at 2:44:30 AM

At the very least Kenshiro has no problem crying.

Disgusted, but not surprised
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
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#22154: Apr 8th 2025 at 2:49:39 AM

Ya. Despite the franchise's image for manliness among anime fans, some of those same fans tend to forget or overlook that what made Yuria fall in love w/ Kenshiro or what makes the various people In-Universe admire him is his kindness and not how awesomely unbeatable he is.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#22155: Apr 8th 2025 at 2:59:27 AM

Honestly, there are a lot of positive male role models in fictional media. A lack of positive male role models in media isn't a problem at least.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Travsam The Reconqueror from The Spanish side of Europe Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: My elf kissing days are over
The Reconqueror
#22156: Apr 8th 2025 at 4:09:07 AM

Sometimes the problem with the male roles is the point or how to interact with women in two different situations:

  • The woman would be a friend, but both are heterosexual, that means, they can be in a relationship but still they decide to keep a friendship (such as Harry Potter and Hermione Granger).
  • The woman would be part of a team or squad, such as Jenette Vasquez in Aliens and still has the respect of the rest of the gang without being subject to sexual innuendo, independent of her sexual orientation.

Stage7-4 Since: Nov, 2014
#22157: Apr 8th 2025 at 7:32:12 AM

Despite the franchise's image for manliness among anime fans, some of those same fans tend to forget or overlook that what made Yuria fall in love w/ Kenshiro or what makes the various people In-Universe admire him is his kindness and not how awesomely unbeatable he is.

You just said the exact problem for why Kenshiro wouldn't make a good male role model, the violence and ubermensch physique are what pulled people in and the kindness is just an afterthought to them. If a role model can't get their message through then they're not doing their job.

Which is the problem with looking at most action stars as role models, even the most emotionally mature will have their message drowned out by the action. Not saying warriors and fighters have no place in media (I just said I wanted a queer action hero a week ago, and not every character has to be a role model) but for most being a role model would just reinforce patriarchy more than it tears it down. Which is why I do believe we need more male role models because the taint of patriarchy runs so deep that it's hard to find examples that aren't bringing one or more toxic traits with them.

But some examples do exist. Ted Lasso (from Ted Lasso of course) is probably the closest I've seen to healthy masculinity post-2020. He's a man with unrelenting positivity that cares deeply for the people around him and more concerned with uplifting them than winning. In spite of that he remains grounded and not a messiah; he visibly struggles with panic attacks, his regrets around his father's suicide, and that this positivity is both his greatest talent and crutch. But as good as Ted Lasso is he can't cover the entire male spectrum, no single man ever could. Which is why we need more Ted's.

Edited by Stage7-4 on Apr 8th 2025 at 7:36:41 AM

raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#22158: Apr 8th 2025 at 8:03:16 AM

I remember that over in the Oversimplified channel, Red once mentioned how in shounen there was a wave of "good kids" protagonists like Izuku from MHA or Tanjiro from Demon Slayer and the two are certainly more emotional in a good sense than Kenshirou.

The problem is not that good role models don't exist in my opinion, the problem is that we have internalised the idea that you have to be evil to succeed at life or else you are mincemeat. And it's your fault to booth for being an idiot.

To paraphrase a quote from ASOIF to explain it: "You are a man of honour, Ned, I didn't think there were any left in the world, but then I see what happens to men of honour like you and I remember why there are none left."

It's not enough that we have good role models, we also have to show them succeeding while also showcasing how petty and idiotic evil can be at its core.

Edited by raziel365 on Apr 9th 2025 at 7:18:14 AM

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#22159: Apr 8th 2025 at 9:05:37 AM

The problem is not that good role models don't exist in my opinion, the problem is that we have internalised the idea that you have to be evil to succeed at life or else you are mincemeat. And it's your fault to booth for being an idiot.

To paraphrase a quote from ASOIF to explain it: "You are a man of honour, Ned, I didn't think there were any left in the world, but then I see what happens to men of honour like you and I remember why there are none left."

It's not enough that we have good role models, we also have to show them succeeding while also showcasing how petty and idiotic evil can be at its core.

Yes. Writing tends to put good characters through the meat grinder for drama. I get why, because it’s meant to make you care for them, but it can result in making that character seem naive or stupid as well.

Sometimes, the good guy has to win. Otherwise what’s the point in being the good guy?

One Strip! One Strip!
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#22160: Apr 8th 2025 at 11:58:30 AM

The problem is not that good role models don't exist in my opinion, the problem is that we have internalised the idea that you have to be evil to succeed at life or else you are mincemeat. And it's your fault to booth for being an idiot.

This is definitely something I've noticed. Evil Is Easy and all that, and some good guys with amazing credential gets slapped with "undeserving" or "unrealistic" because of the need for story conflict or character drama.

LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#22161: Apr 8th 2025 at 12:02:13 PM

An internalised lie, for the most part.

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#22162: Apr 8th 2025 at 12:51:41 PM

Another being that being logical and pragmatic is antithetical to being moral.

Edited by Kaiseror on Apr 8th 2025 at 3:09:23 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#22163: Apr 8th 2025 at 12:58:03 PM

[up]See, I'm not so sure about that.

But we're probably a bit off topic on this, so I'll stop here.

One Strip! One Strip!
Risa123 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#22164: Apr 8th 2025 at 1:28:13 PM

I think this is a question for politics in media and/or philosophy thread.

raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#22165: Apr 8th 2025 at 2:32:08 PM

[up][up][up]

Given that this is tangentially related to men's issues thanks to people like Jordan Peterson, I have the need to point out that this actually wrong, like factually wrong.

The idea that being logic/practicality and morality are intrinsically opposed to each other is another head of the hydra of toxic masculinity (and of other nasty hydras) that is used to push pseudo-science and/or existing power structures under the veneer of it being the "logical" way of existence when in truth it only reflects the biases of the people who spout that nonsense.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#22167: Apr 8th 2025 at 4:13:13 PM

Unfortunately logic and pragmatism is too often used to justify being cruel a la "hard men make hard choices while secretly having a hard-on."

Edited by KRider on Apr 8th 2025 at 7:13:33 PM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#22168: Apr 8th 2025 at 6:02:24 PM

That's not logic and pragmatism. This is what conservatives and bigots THINK is logic and pragmatism. They INSIST they are being cold and logical and having common sense while being and having NONE of those things.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#22169: Apr 8th 2025 at 7:35:21 PM

That's what I meant. It's not really logic but a justification aka an excuse for them to engage in cruelty rather than being honest and flatout admit to everyone that the Cruelty is the Point.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#22170: Apr 8th 2025 at 8:11:21 PM

Even if a situation comes up with it's both logical and practical to Kick the Dog, there's never logic or practicality to Cruelty.

One Strip! One Strip!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#22171: Apr 8th 2025 at 8:15:27 PM

I'm reminded of the Misaimed Fandom surrounding Rick from Rick & Morty. TBF, the series itself doesn't help since it goes back and forth between treating Rick as a god and as a fucked up person. Sometimes in the same episode.

Disgusted, but not surprised
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#22173: Apr 8th 2025 at 8:20:51 PM

Morty even describes Rick as a "super fucked up god" once.

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KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
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#22174: Apr 8th 2025 at 8:55:05 PM

There's also the tendency for these bigots and conservatives to gravitate towards the theme park versions of historical warrior cultures, specifically crusaders, vikings, spartans and samurai.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
SpookyMask Since: Jan, 2011
#22175: Apr 8th 2025 at 11:49:54 PM

Sidenote, I'd argue that regarding Kenshiro, thing is, most people haven't actually read or watched Fist of North Star.

I say that as someone who hasn't either tongue Kenshiro is kinda memetic and lot of people know him through memes and youtube clips


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