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Sexism and Men's Issues

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MOD NOTE: Please note the following part of the forum rules:

If you don't like a thread, don't post in it. Posting in a thread simply to say you don't like it, or that it's stupid, or to point out that you 'knew who made it before you even clicked on it', or to predict that it will end badly will get you warned.

The initial OP posted below covers it well enough: the premise of this thread is that men's issues exist. Don't bother posting if you don't believe there is such a thing.


Here's hoping this isn't considered too redundant. I've noticed that our existing threads about sexism tend to get bogged down in Oppression Olympics or else wildly derailed, so I thought I'd make a thread specifically to talk about discrimination issues that disproportionately affect men.

No Oppression Olympics here, okay? No saying "But that's not important because women suffer X which is worse!" And no discussing these issues purely in terms of how much better women have it. Okay? If the discussion cannot meaningfully proceed without making a comparison to male and female treatment, that's fine, but on the whole I want this thread to be about how men are harmed by society and how we can fix it. Issues like:

  • The male-only draft (in countries that have one)
  • Circumcision
  • Cavalier attitudes toward men's pain and sickness, AKA "Walk it off!"
  • The Success Myth, which defines a man's desirability by his material success. Also The Myth of Men Not Being Hot, which denies that men can be sexually attractive as male beings.
  • Sexual abuse of men.
  • Family law.
  • General attitudes that men are dangerous or untrustworthy.

I could go on making the list, but I think you get the idea.

Despite what you might have heard about feminists not caring about men, it's not true. I care about men. Patriarchy sucks for them as much as it sucks for women, in a lot of ways. So I'm putting my keyboard where my mouth is and making a thread for us to all care about men.

Also? If you're male and think of something as a men's issue, by golly that makes it a men's issue fit for inclusion in this thread. I might disagree with you as to the solution, but as a woman I'm not going to tell you you have no right to be concerned about it. No "womansplaining" here.

Edited by nombretomado on Dec 15th 2019 at 5:19:34 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#17776: Sep 9th 2016 at 11:56:00 AM

" but from my experiences from the women whom generally approached me or clued in on wanting sex/a relationship/whichever were not exactly the type of women you would want to attract"

I have a friend from argentina who have experinece the following:

-Women slaping his butt(he was big ass) touching or admiting in front of his face they want to grab it, quite blatanly in fact.

-Call him "Putito"(Little whore) and plenty of other ways

-A women actually request him a dick pic(really) when it was clear he want nothing with her.

-And why? because he have a girlfriend, and the other girls know it...and dosent seen to care

a this point I have tell my friend is more a hentai protagonist than actual person, he seen to agree on that.

" while women's default mode is "frigid ice queen.""

Kinda, the idea is that a women have total control of her sexuality and can swich with a tought, that is VERY comon in sitcom where a women ponder in advantage of having sex or not, the idea of horny women on her own is still strange for many.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#17777: Sep 9th 2016 at 11:58:26 AM

The Lysistrata Gambit. See the trope page for why this s doubly ridiculous.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Ecrivan Amused Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Amused
#17778: Sep 9th 2016 at 2:45:33 PM

[up]I always hated that trope for two reasons.

First of all the obvious as it is assuming that men are always wanting sex (not true) so the karmic punishment for that is to withhold it which a ridiculous and to be quite frank unhealthy notion for a relationship.

Also...what is stopping the guy from just taking care of himself if the woman doesn't want sex or is withholding it? Realistically that's what I imagine someone would do in that position rather than adhere to the punishment

edited 9th Sep '16 2:46:18 PM by Ecrivan

Formerly known as Bleddyn And I am feeling like a ghost Resident Perky Goth
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#17779: Sep 9th 2016 at 2:51:45 PM

[up]Because fapping is fucking miserable, that's why. Especially in binges.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Ecrivan Amused Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Amused
#17780: Sep 9th 2016 at 2:54:37 PM

Well it's considered that by the media yes.

Realistically, not really....

Formerly known as Bleddyn And I am feeling like a ghost Resident Perky Goth
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#17781: Sep 9th 2016 at 2:54:55 PM

The reasonable response to that situation is "are we going to resolve our issues through blackmail? I think there's something VERY wrong here."

Ecrivan Amused Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Amused
#17782: Sep 9th 2016 at 2:58:08 PM

There has been a few works that have pointed that out. Hell even pyschologists have basically Yeah, don't do that unless you want to destroy your relationship.

Never understood what's so funny about that....

Formerly known as Bleddyn And I am feeling like a ghost Resident Perky Goth
AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#17783: Sep 9th 2016 at 5:41:16 PM

If you feel the need to resort to punishment in a relationship at all, you need to reconsider the relationship.

[up][up][up][up]That's one attitude that really needs to die. The faster the better.

Check out my fanfiction!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#17784: Sep 9th 2016 at 8:29:45 PM

is funny because in the original greek play the idea of women being able to shut down sex was seen as stupid and weird, today we see a parody of women agency where they can swich in and off their desires.

In fact, the idea of women sex drive being consider weird happen a lot, just look the diference between cover pervert: must of the time the men is casanova who is quite baltant in his desire, while the women a best have hint of what she wants, anime REALLY like to used this one and it have become a cliche as well

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#17785: Sep 9th 2016 at 8:49:09 PM

Also when you have access to sex, going back to masturbation is just plain awful, so having to jerk off again because your wife/spouse/girlfriend whatever is withholding sex because she wants you to do something usually prompt men to actually do something about it.

If the real life examples of the trope are to go by, it really works.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Ecrivan Amused Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Amused
#17786: Sep 9th 2016 at 9:02:13 PM

Huh, perhaps I was wrong then. I have no actual experience with sex so....

I just thought that maybe some guys response to that would to be just to take care of themselves on their own then. But then again male masturbation is seen as pathetic by media so meh.

Formerly known as Bleddyn And I am feeling like a ghost Resident Perky Goth
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#17787: Sep 10th 2016 at 1:13:54 AM

It's not about being pathetic, it's about fucking up your built-in incentives to reach out to people of your desired gender, by giving you the reward without the effort. It's a bad habit. Like eating junk food. If you have unfulfulled lust, channel it into productive stuff: work, organising, sports, stuff that will make everything better.

There's a reason "wanker", "jerk(-off)", "masturbatory", "tosser", and so on, are derogatory, without any help from "the media", who, let's be honest, barely talk about it.

edited 10th Sep '16 1:17:19 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#17788: Sep 10th 2016 at 1:35:55 AM

So, basically, people who're not in relationships and don't like one night stands don't deserve sex. It's not any better than slut shaming.

Check out my fanfiction!
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#17789: Sep 10th 2016 at 1:47:13 AM

It boggles the mind how you could extrapolate that from what I said.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Khudzlin Since: Nov, 2013
#17790: Sep 10th 2016 at 2:08:20 AM

[up][up][up] That's bullshit. Repressing sexual urges only makes them come back harder or in another, more twisted form.

edited 10th Sep '16 2:08:44 AM by Khudzlin

Corvidae It's a bird. from Somewhere Else Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
It's a bird.
#17791: Sep 10th 2016 at 2:18:29 AM

As one of my old biology teachers used to describe it, "You don't have to stop eating blueberry pie just because you've got access to steak."

Still a great "screw depression" song even after seven years.
AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#17792: Sep 10th 2016 at 2:57:28 AM

[up][up][up]It's what it adds up to. It's just shaming people who do something you don't think is worthy of doing. And it's somehow it's "not productive". Is having sex with other people more productive in any way? Or many other things people do in their free time?

Check out my fanfiction!
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#17793: Sep 10th 2016 at 3:12:21 AM

I'd note that the real life examples of it working would probably have also worked if it was something other that sex. If my girlfriend went "what you're doing is so seriously fucked up and wrong that I no longer what to engage in an act of love and affection with you" I'd seriously reconsider what I was doing.

A simple coordinated "speak with your husband about how he's contributing to the country going to shit" likely would have and has worked, but "sex strike by wives" is a better headline.

Also just because a sex strike by wives has worked doesn't mean men inherently want more sex, a sex strike by husbands could also work, but it simply haven't been tried/doesn't make for good headlines.

edited 10th Sep '16 3:13:47 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#17794: Sep 10th 2016 at 3:16:01 AM

[up][up]Whataboutery. And I certainly didn't say anything about shaming. "What you're doing is bad for you" is very far removed from "you should be ashamed".

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#17795: Sep 10th 2016 at 3:28:19 AM

Not really, unless you've got actual proof it's inherently bad for you.

And don't bring up whataboutery when you say, "what about all these other things you could do instead?"

Check out my fanfiction!
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#17796: Sep 10th 2016 at 5:13:58 AM

You don't know what "whataboutery" means. Let me explain myself: that there are worse, more useless, more self-damaging, time-sink habits than A Date with Rosie Palms doesn't mean that the latter isn't, in fact, something you shouldn't do. It only means that it's one of the many things that you shouldn't do. Yes, you could do much worse, but that's irrelevant to the discussion: that there are worse things around doesn't make it less bad.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
IniuriaTalis Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Love, football, the arts, the occasional pint
#17797: Sep 10th 2016 at 5:20:14 AM

Do you have a scientific source on it being bad? A quick Google brings mostly results about experts finding it neutral to beneficial in most cases, although not as good as regular sex.

Does anyone actually read these?
Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#17798: Sep 10th 2016 at 5:31:52 AM

Masturbation: Yeah, I'm with Duck. As long as an act doesn't harm anyone, it shouldn't be classified as bad. If you went with the argument of opportunity costs, than a lot of hobbies should be regarded as bad too. Watching TV, gaming, building a model railroad, cosplaying, reading trashy novels, fishing, painting, writing fanfiction... they all take way more time or cost more money. So do you think they are bad? If not, than neither is masturbation. Moreover, masturbation improves sperm quality in men, helps prevent cervical infections and relieves urinary tract infections in women and most importantly releases stress for both. So it is actually healthy.

Lysistrata Gambit: The problem isn't that withholding sex isn't a punishment for the men. It's that the women punish themselves with it in equal measure. "Going back to masturbation is just plain awful" applies to them too after all. It basically becomes a Game of Chicken. It's mainly used by women, because in patriarchal societies, it's about the only leverage they have and women's behaviour can be regulated by other means (money, housing, political represantation).

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#17799: Sep 10th 2016 at 5:34:52 AM

[up][up][up]Actually, I do, I just turned it around. Mentioning that there are other better things you could do doesn't make one thing less good. You're using exactly the same fallacy you're accusing me of.

edited 10th Sep '16 5:35:29 AM by AnotherDuck

Check out my fanfiction!
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#17800: Sep 10th 2016 at 5:41:14 AM

I feel I should also point out that, in addition to the "your time would be better spent finding a partner" fallacy (which falls short for any number of reasons, not the least of which being that for many people, finding a romantic partner simply isn't viable/practical), the idea that masturbation is inherently negative or self-destructive is also fairly offensive to aromantic people. People who may experience sexual desire and/or enjoy masturbation, but have no interest in acquiring a partner.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."

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