MOD NOTE: Please note the following part of the forum rules:
The initial OP posted below covers it well enough: the premise of this thread is that men's issues exist. Don't bother posting if you don't believe there is such a thing.
Here's hoping this isn't considered too redundant. I've noticed that our existing threads about sexism tend to get bogged down in Oppression Olympics or else wildly derailed, so I thought I'd make a thread specifically to talk about discrimination issues that disproportionately affect men.
No Oppression Olympics here, okay? No saying "But that's not important because women suffer X which is worse!" And no discussing these issues purely in terms of how much better women have it. Okay? If the discussion cannot meaningfully proceed without making a comparison to male and female treatment, that's fine, but on the whole I want this thread to be about how men are harmed by society and how we can fix it. Issues like:
- The male-only draft (in countries that have one)
- Circumcision
- Cavalier attitudes toward men's pain and sickness, AKA "Walk it off!"
- The Success Myth, which defines a man's desirability by his material success. Also The Myth of Men Not Being Hot, which denies that men can be sexually attractive as male beings.
- Sexual abuse of men.
- Family law.
- General attitudes that men are dangerous or untrustworthy.
I could go on making the list, but I think you get the idea.
Despite what you might have heard about feminists not caring about men, it's not true. I care about men. Patriarchy sucks for them as much as it sucks for women, in a lot of ways. So I'm putting my keyboard where my mouth is and making a thread for us to all care about men.
Also? If you're male and think of something as a men's issue, by golly that makes it a men's issue fit for inclusion in this thread. I might disagree with you as to the solution, but as a woman I'm not going to tell you you have no right to be concerned about it. No "womansplaining" here.
Edited by nombretomado on Dec 15th 2019 at 5:19:34 AM
Honestly, it's exactly the sort of thing we have judges for (to make judgement calls that are difficult to write strict laws for), but if the laws aren't written to allow the justice system that leeway, then there's nothing anyone can do until and unless the law is changed.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.And sometimes, the judges or law enforcement just let the bad prosecution happen. Part of the reason why I consider "eh, how will this be enforced" a bad defence for bad law.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanAlso, there's another part of why I think there's been a spree of judges handing out light sentences recently. As noted, the sex offender list has a number of clear problems, so the backlash against it leads to the opposite extreme, with too many light sentences getting tossed out. note
Or, as I previously put it, the pendulum swings too far one way, the pendulum swings too far back the other way, and so on.
edited 4th Sep '16 3:32:24 PM by TotemicHero
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)"This belief then metastasized into Sex Is Evil in general, that permeates society. Taking away women's "purity" is taking away the main value the patriarchy gives them"
Pretty much, this also work against men since is pretty much state only rapist can be male because male sexualit is agresive while women sexuality have to be receptive
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
That notion has been proven to be bullshit many many times. Hell I am pretty sure quite a few non armchair psychologists has disproved it. Women are just as privy to sexual perversions and lust just as men and they have always have been since the end of time. It depends more on the person then what gender they are really.
Of course the issue is that our society is struggling to catch up to the fact that gender has nothing to do with that.
edited 4th Sep '16 5:37:46 PM by Ecrivan
Formerly known as Bleddyn And I am feeling like a ghost Resident Perky GothMost such laws in the US depend on where you are (what state, county, or even city you're in, depending). What'll get you a "public indecency" in one place'll only get you "creating a public nuisance" in another. There's no federal law about peeing in public, so it's up to the states, the counties, the cities, or the incorporated towns.
Not to be annoying or anything, but hasn't the recent discussion sort of moved into banned topic territory a couple of times?
Still a great "screw depression" song even after seven years.Except it's still just well off white guys who are getting the mercy. Everyone else is still boned
Speaking of the Brock Turner case...
edited 6th Sep '16 9:42:16 PM by Serelepe
The disturbing part about that other then the fact the female rapists get lower sentences and barely any attention at all is the simple fact that the male victims will not likely get help. At all.
Infact our society deems that male victims either just have to shut up and deal with it or be laughed at for being weak or that these young boys are lucky as if the fact them being boys makes it okay rather then traumatizing...
You know it's sad when some random female author is pretty much the only one noticing and reporting on this type of thing as wrong....
edited 6th Sep '16 10:51:16 PM by Ecrivan
Formerly known as Bleddyn And I am feeling like a ghost Resident Perky Gothi gotta leave this here, i like hot guys and sure i can shallow about it. it kinda frustrates me to no end that if i guy was to ever look like this
than it's gay. sweet lord. some women can be visual too and appreciate some man ass from time to time.
That is a great point. It comes around to a discussion my roommate and I were having the other day.
A popular complaint that men have about women is, "I have to work so hard to even get women to give me the time of day, but WOMEN are flooded with attention. A woman can have sex any time she wants by just picking one of her suitors and doing it!"
And that is true...for conventionally attractive women. But do you know who else it's true for? Conventionally attractive men. Frumpy, awkward women who don't fit the Hollywood mold are usually in the same boat as frumpy, awkward men who don't. Ultimately, a more accurate statement would be that really attractive people can have sex whenever they want - although there's a whole separate set of hurdles you run into when random people are trying to f*ck you every five seconds.
But it gets divided into gender lines in people's perception, because we assume that the average woman is a drop-dead gorgeous sex-bomb and that the average man is a fat, unlikable slob. Because that's the social standard we've all grown up with.
edited 8th Sep '16 12:24:48 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Honestly being an average and conventionally attractive man won't do much for him to get laid if he doesn't have any attitude or if he is socially awkward, specially when it is expected from men to make the first move.
It may help a guy not get outright shut down during flirting but it won't guarantee interest from women either.
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I will say this: whether actually genetic or simply cultural reinforcement, there are more men willing to sex women than women to sex men. That is to say, as far as attractiveness goes society deems that women are inherently attractive, men have to prove their attractiveness. Ergo an "average women" would recieve more solicitation from guys than the average guy would from girls.
X6 There is a difference but it again comes down to social expectations. Men Act, Women Are means that a man with a poor personality is going to have to fake a good personality to be aproched sexually, while a women with a poor personality simply has to hide the poor personality. Combine that with the fact that men are under huge pressure to be actively seeking sex all the time meaning that men are encouraged to have lower standards (particularly when it comes to personality, if not physical attractiveness) and it is often easier for women to find men to have sex with, because men are encouraged to have sex with any women who will 'let' them, while women are encouraged to have sex only with particular men.
This part of the "All men are jerk" complain of Nice guy have a ring of truth, since a men with personality can in theory charm a women away in which people with little charm can do more than sit and resent.
Also the fact that women can have a chose(in theory) give the impresion they have more power it really have, hell I remenber one coment saying women are slut because they just have to "open their legs" while a men have to work hard to get a women.
That is how fuck up is the whole deal.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"I am not sure how it is for other attractive guys but from my experiences from the women whom generally approached me or clued in on wanting sex/a relationship/whichever were not exactly the type of women you would want to attract. Some of them were making me feel very uncomfortable with just how forward they were about getting in my pants and one of them is now my ex-girlfriend (she threatened to abuse me at one point).
Although admittedly I know that women experience the same thing. The same level of uncertainty that for all you know this other person might not be a good person under the mask or the uncomfortable situation of being blatantly lusted after.
The dating game is not a good system either which way for people that just genuinely want a good relationship. Your still taking risks that might very well hurt in the end.
Formerly known as Bleddyn And I am feeling like a ghost Resident Perky GothThe perception that a woman can have sex just by, essentially, pointing to a dude and saying she's up for it, persists for every degree of attractiveness from "average" on up. I'm sure it's not entirely true, but this is about perception, not reality. The thought is that even an average woman, if she had no other desire than to have sex, could walk into most any public gathering place and be able to find a guy to have sex with her, whereas an average guy in similar circumstance could not. My guess is this has to do with the persistent prejudice that men are horny all the time, and are up for sex at the drop of a hat, while women's default mode is "frigid ice queen."
Again, this is the perception. If pick-up artists have taught us anything it's that if even an average looking guy isn't concerned about being shot-down and propositions enough potential partners, he'll find someone to have sex with. I knew a guy in college (not a male model or anything, but clean and presentable) who would go to bars and literally approach women with "Do you wanna f***?" He got turned down (and slapped) a lot, which you'd expect, but what was surprising was how often it actually worked.

I think it's because it violates the anti-flashing laws.