MOD NOTE: Please note the following part of the forum rules:
The initial OP posted below covers it well enough: the premise of this thread is that men's issues exist. Don't bother posting if you don't believe there is such a thing.
Here's hoping this isn't considered too redundant. I've noticed that our existing threads about sexism tend to get bogged down in Oppression Olympics or else wildly derailed, so I thought I'd make a thread specifically to talk about discrimination issues that disproportionately affect men.
No Oppression Olympics here, okay? No saying "But that's not important because women suffer X which is worse!" And no discussing these issues purely in terms of how much better women have it. Okay? If the discussion cannot meaningfully proceed without making a comparison to male and female treatment, that's fine, but on the whole I want this thread to be about how men are harmed by society and how we can fix it. Issues like:
- The male-only draft (in countries that have one)
- Circumcision
- Cavalier attitudes toward men's pain and sickness, AKA "Walk it off!"
- The Success Myth, which defines a man's desirability by his material success. Also The Myth of Men Not Being Hot, which denies that men can be sexually attractive as male beings.
- Sexual abuse of men.
- Family law.
- General attitudes that men are dangerous or untrustworthy.
I could go on making the list, but I think you get the idea.
Despite what you might have heard about feminists not caring about men, it's not true. I care about men. Patriarchy sucks for them as much as it sucks for women, in a lot of ways. So I'm putting my keyboard where my mouth is and making a thread for us to all care about men.
Also? If you're male and think of something as a men's issue, by golly that makes it a men's issue fit for inclusion in this thread. I might disagree with you as to the solution, but as a woman I'm not going to tell you you have no right to be concerned about it. No "womansplaining" here.
Edited by nombretomado on Dec 15th 2019 at 5:19:34 AM
If you're still cool with being friends but the person who you came onto is not, then the issue is most likely on their end and not yours, because in principle you've done nothing wrong and are handling it maturely, the ball is in their court. It's unfortunate but you can't really do anything about it, you just have to let that go and accept that they probably had reasons (which may have been stupid, or may not have been, nothing you can do about it either way).
edited 4th Mar '16 4:38:20 PM by wehrmacht
Oh I learned the "you can't do anything about it" lesson the hard way, twice, belive me I know.
Thing is this kinda puts the entire onus of responsibility or the person who plucks up the courage to raise the possibility of there being something more. The initiator has to either accept that the friendship is over if the other person wants it that way, or suck it up and stay in a friendship they're no longer comfortable with if the other wants it that way.
That kind of logic train is you how end up with nobody initiating, you get you standard missed opportunities because nobody wants to risk being responsible for ruining things, but you also get frankly weird situations where two people try and act on their interest in each other without actually admitting their interest as to do so would risk ruining the friendship and that ruin being their fault.
edited 4th Mar '16 5:38:43 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Also there can be situations where even though you're both attracted to each other, and you know you're both attracted to each other, there's something that prevents you moving forward into a relationship. And you can stay friends (though often the flirting adds a new dimension of rumor to surround your friendship).
I think that a friendship should be something that the two people want and are comfortable with. If one of them is uncomfortable, they should ask themselves why and try to figure out what to do to resolve that. When it comes to a situation where romantic feelings are involved it's difficult to say what you should do, because every friendship and person are different, sometimes you might be able to stay friends because the awkwardness goes away pretty quickly, sometimes one of you is ok but the other isn't, etc. You just have to make what you think is the best choice for yourself and be as respectful and open about it as possible, especially if it's a choice that needs to be made but might end up hurting someone's feelings.
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To be honest with you I really don't know. I have heard that some couples send each other nudes (not a good idea in my opinion since those cause a lot of damage if they leak, but whatever), but showing a woman a dick pic as a "coming on" move is literally in the poorest taste possible.
edited 4th Mar '16 5:57:43 PM by wehrmacht
One would hope because they asked to be sent them. Hell that goes both ways, if you're sending someone naughty/special photos it should be because it's a thing the two of you enjoy doing and have agreed that you enjoy doing.
A better question would be why some men think it's okay to send unsolicited dick pics to strangers, that I've got no answer for.
If you can't trust your partner to keep a private photo of you to themselves then I'd suggest that such a relationship has fundemental issues. Nudes don't leak themselves (iCloud issues notwithstanding), yeah don't send such things to someone you don't trust, though honestly I'd generally suggest not dating someone you don't trust (don't trust in this context being know you don't trust, not someone you've yet to determine if they're worth of trust).
edited 4th Mar '16 6:00:46 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyranat a guess I'd say that women are more likely to stick to the basic idea of doing it safely, as in not sending the naughty picks to random people who haven't asked for them, but instead sharing them privately with a partner.
That and with men you're going to get some statistics bias, it's still regarded as socially okay to look at and launch at a private picture a man took of himself, we have (thankfully) largely moved beyond that when it comes to private pictures women take of themselves, so such things will come out more if a man does it.
Plus the ones we hear about tend to involve power players, a older political sending a naked pic to a young intern, due to how sociable power structures are that's still more likely then not an older man and a younger women.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranIt might not necessarily be a malicious leak on the partner's part but the result of carelessness or some other issue (like someone going through their phone and leaking them or something). I'm not gonna say how likely something like that is or isn't, just that sometimes you do get extraneous cases like icloud issues and whatnot.
I agree with you that you shouldn't be dating someone you wouldn't trust with intimate pictures of yourself, I'm just personally not comfortable with the idea of nudes of me existing at all, if couples trust each other and are comfortable with sending intimate photos, then that's their business and I don't really have any issues with it.
edited 4th Mar '16 6:12:14 PM by wehrmacht
If you let (emphasis on let) someone go uncontrolled though a devise that has nudes on it then that's either deliberate (which some people may be into in fairness) or incompetence on such a level that it borders on malicious.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran"Pre-emptive self-rejection is definitely a problematic phenomenon."
There is another issue here, that so far many men dosent think women suffer this kind of issue(or handsome men for that matter) creating a "woe is me" kind of situation, it get the impression that women have "control" over them because she can reject them at will and have more atention, I remenber reading one men who said it was dificult sympathcy with a women saying she reject a lot of men when he was barely capable to get one.
About pics, I remenber a friend of mine having pics of her girlfriend breast or being almost nude, so yeah sometimes people likes to shared nude pictures, many "revenge porn" come from bitter exes or even other people.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"I'd note that I'm wondering if "dick pics" and "nudes" are in many ways totally different things. A dick pick is a lazy thing with little thought and no emotional attachment, a nude done for ones partner? That's going to normally have a bit of planning and thought put into it. That's something that could be art, point down and click isn't art in any way.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran![]()
Not much, I have a female friend who said she show her breast to someone in webcam because in her own worlds "she was horny"
Yeah, women can reject people at will and never experience the awkarness of asking people out, even concept like nice girl are unhear, because women as this pure things can just put smilling face and everything come in their hands....you can see where lead that thinking
Because they think it's an effective come-on. Logic is, "I'd sleep with her if she sent me a pic of her tits. I'd be super grateful for that. Therefore, she must feel the same way and will really appreciate this shot of my dick!"
Then there's the internalized misandry attempts, in which they compare their blunt attempt to the "bullshit" of dating. They just want sex and assume the same is true of other men, and thus expect to get brownie points for it. "All men just want to f*ck and don't care about women as people, but they play games and pretend to care to try and get to the sex. I'm being open and honest about the fact that I consider you a life support system for a vagina, and that makes me ten times better than anyone who's ever been nice to you."
Which is funny because women frequently see it exactly the opposite: they have no power because they aren't allowed to make the approach. They just have to hope the guy does it, and if he doesn't, then it just never happens.
My BFF is assertive and tends to pursue the people she's interested in, and she's got no end of horror stories about getting slut-shamed and otherwise harassed by other women, other men, and even the guy in question that she was trying to ask out. Men get downright offended at being asked.
And for as much as guys like to think that women hold all the cards because they're the only ones with a right to say yes or no, it's actually not the case. Not only are they socially forbidden from making the approach, the consequences of saying no can be disastrous. Societally, they're not expected to make a choice at all. They're expected to just say yes when asked.
It's ultimately very frustrating that men so enviously romanticize women's complete lack of agency in dating.
edited 5th Mar '16 1:17:48 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
It seems fairly obvious to me that the one who's interested should be the one to make the approach, gender be damned.
I'm sad to hear that. From my perspective, people in general should learn to be assertive, but in a romantic context, the thought that you can expect to get asked out no matter your gender is comforting and means that there are more possibilities for people to know each other.
edited 5th Mar '16 2:05:38 PM by wehrmacht
So why do men get turned on by tit pics (or vag pics if that's a more accurate analogy), but women get turned off by dick pics-
Now that's interesting. Does this suggest men wouldn't be turned on by vag pics, but merely think they will be, because media drills in the 'fact' that All Men Are Perverts?
Usually when people say the All Men Are Perverts trope hurts men, it's due to women and other men believing in the trope. Having this trope manifest in the form of internalized misandry is rather... interesting.
(Also, the media portrays all women as inherently sexy and all men as inherently unsexy and disgusting, so people could be conditioned to think that way.)
edited 5th Mar '16 6:50:43 PM by hellomoto
I mean also if you got spammed with a dozen random vaginas, would that be that arousing? Like these aren't porn well kept vaginas, just any ol' vagina from some faceless person.
Read my stories!As a reply, one reason that a woman might not be comfortable with you any more if you were friends and then hit on her is HOW you hit on her. I've had men suddenly go gropey on me without asking as a way to hit on me. I've had them say incredibly crude things. Sometimes the way that men approach friends they want to date is so badly done that it makes the woman feel unsafe and uncomfortable with them afterwards.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Sure but you can have more then one female friend, I was friends with both my past girlfriends (in one case for years, kinda) before we got together, we don't speak anymore though, but I've always had other female friends who I wasn't trying to date.
And on the friend zone thing, what about when it's not you that changes but them? Maybe this is just my experience but some people don't feel able to go back to being friends after rejecting someone, even if the person who made the approach is able to go "fair enough, still we're chill right?" the person they approached may not be. In which case the aprochee may go full in for a penny in for a pound and keep pressing, or even end up desperately trying to salvage a friendship that was destroyed by them admitting their feelings.
To raise what is probably a complain that comes up, why does only one side get to decide if the friendship is over? A friendship is a two way street, shouldn't advise about dealing with rejection also apply to dealing with doing the rejecting?
Also I'd note that having female friends doesn't always go down well, if not properly explained it's possible for someone to take you going to female friends for advise (after all they're women) as something else.
edited 4th Mar '16 4:08:08 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran