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Sexism and Men's Issues

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MOD NOTE: Please note the following part of the forum rules:

If you don't like a thread, don't post in it. Posting in a thread simply to say you don't like it, or that it's stupid, or to point out that you 'knew who made it before you even clicked on it', or to predict that it will end badly will get you warned.

The initial OP posted below covers it well enough: the premise of this thread is that men's issues exist. Don't bother posting if you don't believe there is such a thing.


Here's hoping this isn't considered too redundant. I've noticed that our existing threads about sexism tend to get bogged down in Oppression Olympics or else wildly derailed, so I thought I'd make a thread specifically to talk about discrimination issues that disproportionately affect men.

No Oppression Olympics here, okay? No saying "But that's not important because women suffer X which is worse!" And no discussing these issues purely in terms of how much better women have it. Okay? If the discussion cannot meaningfully proceed without making a comparison to male and female treatment, that's fine, but on the whole I want this thread to be about how men are harmed by society and how we can fix it. Issues like:

  • The male-only draft (in countries that have one)
  • Circumcision
  • Cavalier attitudes toward men's pain and sickness, AKA "Walk it off!"
  • The Success Myth, which defines a man's desirability by his material success. Also The Myth of Men Not Being Hot, which denies that men can be sexually attractive as male beings.
  • Sexual abuse of men.
  • Family law.
  • General attitudes that men are dangerous or untrustworthy.

I could go on making the list, but I think you get the idea.

Despite what you might have heard about feminists not caring about men, it's not true. I care about men. Patriarchy sucks for them as much as it sucks for women, in a lot of ways. So I'm putting my keyboard where my mouth is and making a thread for us to all care about men.

Also? If you're male and think of something as a men's issue, by golly that makes it a men's issue fit for inclusion in this thread. I might disagree with you as to the solution, but as a woman I'm not going to tell you you have no right to be concerned about it. No "womansplaining" here.

Edited by nombretomado on Dec 15th 2019 at 5:19:34 AM

Paradisesnake Since: Mar, 2012
#16451: Jan 30th 2016 at 7:01:47 AM

Here it's apparently 54 working days, and maternity leave is 105 working days.

Edit. Awkward page topper is awkward.

edited 30th Jan '16 7:03:05 AM by Paradisesnake

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#16452: Jan 30th 2016 at 7:09:15 AM

What is the situation in other countries? Does working fathers have rights of leaves for the purpose of maternity care for their spouses and children?

In the UK:

  • Fathers have up to 2 weeks paid paternity leave, and more if shared with the mother;
  • Mothers have up to 52 weeks (26 weeks each of different types) paid maternity leave, two weeks of which are mandatory.

edited 30th Jan '16 7:12:24 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
hellomoto Since: Sep, 2015
#16453: Jan 30th 2016 at 7:12:21 AM

Is it even fair to give mothers longer maternity leave on the basis of "her body need to heal from childbirth and pregnancy, while fathers' bodies don't have to"?

edited 30th Jan '16 7:12:36 AM by hellomoto

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#16454: Jan 30th 2016 at 7:14:41 AM

I'd say it's fair although that isn't the only reason behind paid leave. It's also for bonding time between the parents and the baby.

murazrai Since: Jan, 2010
#16455: Jan 30th 2016 at 7:26:16 AM

It appeared that the global trend is to not giving fathers equal days of leaves for their babies compared to the mothers. sad

I find it very hypocritical because men are expected to take good care of women and children instead of solely being the breadwinner yet they are denied of doing such a thing when a child is born.

As a side note isn't this actually harmful to the baby itself in the sense that the baby has imbalanced exposure to the parents in its very early life?

edited 30th Jan '16 7:28:42 AM by murazrai

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#16456: Jan 30th 2016 at 7:35:51 AM

[up]I think it depends on whether or not the working parent tries to make up for lost time. If they make an effort to play with the baby at night and on the weekends I don't think it will be too big of a deal.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#16457: Jan 30th 2016 at 7:38:14 AM

[up] That is assuming the baby chooses to play to that timetable for the first few weeks — aren't they up every few hours through the night?

Keep Rolling On
AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#16458: Jan 30th 2016 at 7:55:09 AM

Parental leave here in Sweden is 480 days (~16 months) total. Each parent have 90 days earmarked, which can't be transferred (unless it's a single parent). Not entirely sure on the pay, but I think most of that is a significant portion of the normal paycheck (maybe 80% or something), and some of it is at a flat rate.

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Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#16459: Jan 30th 2016 at 8:00:56 AM

Well, I do remember that my parents pretty much stopped caring for attempting to make up for things over the weekend once I was old enough for kindergarten. Although that probably was due more to their personalities than anything.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
hellomoto Since: Sep, 2015
#16460: Feb 5th 2016 at 6:47:32 AM

I was watching an asian show, when this happened:


There was UST between Female Character and Male Character #1.

Out of nowhere, Male Character #2 walks up to Male Character #1.

Male Character #2: Male Character #1! If you want Female Character, take off your shirt.

Female Character: I'll do it instead.

Male Character #1: No, leave it to me.

Male Character #1 removes his shirt.

UST resumes. Male Character #1 is treated as sexy. No sign of the show knowing anything's wrong.


Meanwhile, in real life:


Me: Did you see that? The man taking off his shirt?

Man: Yea.

Me: What if this situation was gender-flipped? One woman telling another woman, 'If you want this man, take off your shirt'?

Man: The other woman should say 'Who are you? Why should I do what you tell me to do?'

Me: Now, apply that to the scene you saw just now on TV-

Man: But he's a man! It's alright for men!


Talk about a Double Standard. The Female Character offering to take off her shirt for the Male Character #1 makes thing even more confusing.

edited 5th Feb '16 6:49:21 AM by hellomoto

Khudzlin Since: Nov, 2013
#16461: Feb 5th 2016 at 7:51:05 AM

Male #1 should certainly respond as the man talking with you said a woman should respond. But the female character should also say "Who the hell are you to decide what he should do to get me?".

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#16462: Feb 5th 2016 at 9:37:59 AM

I think that without context, and maybe with, it's pretty much a wtf? moment for what the third wheel says.

I also find it kinda amusing that their actions pretty much say, "We like each other. Let's hook up."

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Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#16463: Feb 5th 2016 at 9:56:23 AM

I'm less outraged and more what the fuck just happened.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
hellomoto Since: Sep, 2015
#16464: Feb 5th 2016 at 10:28:40 PM

Indeed. Even in context, Male Character #2 just came out of nowhere, and appeared purely for this scene. All that context helped with was to establish UST between Female Character and Male Character #1.

By the way, Female Character and Male Character #1 became girlfriend/boyfriend right after that scene.

edited 5th Feb '16 10:30:13 PM by hellomoto

Bleddyn Since: Feb, 2014
#16465: Feb 6th 2016 at 2:25:45 AM

[up]And that just made me cringe on multiple levels. Yeah sure lets build a relationship based on the male's attractiveness alone. That totally is not wrong and flawed in anyway....

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#16466: Feb 6th 2016 at 3:00:58 AM

I don't even see that. They seemed to like each other enough to cover for each other by uncovering themselves, without their individual attractiveness factoring into that.

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hellomoto Since: Sep, 2015
#16467: Feb 6th 2016 at 3:11:27 AM

Oh, another bit of context:

They were distributing flyers in the middle of a crowded street.

edited 6th Feb '16 3:11:43 AM by hellomoto

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#16468: Feb 6th 2016 at 3:29:31 AM

So it makes less sense in context?

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Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#16469: Feb 6th 2016 at 3:44:49 AM

Sounds just like a super random crazy moment more then anything.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
murazrai Since: Jan, 2010
#16470: Feb 6th 2016 at 5:35:09 AM

This might have to do with the fact that men going topless in public, while something that is certainly inappropriate, isn't exactly seen in a negative light. This comes to another question: why men's chest is not seen as private parts?

hellomoto Since: Sep, 2015
#16471: Feb 6th 2016 at 5:59:05 AM

Breasts are considered private parts. Women's chest have breasts. Men's chests don't have breasts.

waii

edited 6th Feb '16 5:59:29 AM by hellomoto

Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#16472: Feb 6th 2016 at 6:02:38 AM

[up][up]Wrong question. Why are women's chests seen as private parts is the question? It's not a universal view either looking at all of humanity.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#16473: Feb 6th 2016 at 6:29:51 AM

[up][up] Men do. They're just not developed. Man can actually get breast cancer.

[up] Then surely the idea is that neither men nor women should go topless in public?

edited 6th Feb '16 6:30:25 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#16474: Feb 6th 2016 at 6:40:02 AM

Men going topless in public is not necessarily seen as inappropriate depending on where you live.

Here in Brazil, it's normal for certain physical labourers and other blue-collar professions to go around shirtless. I see shirtless men all the time when I go out on the street.

Superdark33 The dark Mage of the playground from Playgrounds and Adventures Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
The dark Mage of the playground
#16475: Feb 6th 2016 at 6:50:14 AM

Because a shirtless man shows his huge strong muscles and proves that he is a man to everyone.

Like anything else a man is supposed to do anyway so why stop here?


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